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The Nursing School to Welfare Pipeline

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by panurse9999 panurse9999 (Member)

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You are reading page 6 of The Nursing School to Welfare Pipeline. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

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I think what bothers me the most about this whole thread is the title, Nursing School to Welfare Pipeline, that's a big leap to say that people with debt end up in the welfare system. I'm struggling with the student loan debt I accrued from my first bachelors and masters, as well as the credit card debt that I accrued during that time because I was doing what I thought was best at the time. You can plan all you want, but life happens and things don't always go as we plan. So to sit here and degrade people who value education, whether because they truly feel they need a certain degree to meet their goals or because that's what they've been led to believe, is frustrating. Yes, I have a ton of student loan debt (around 90K to be exact) and quite a bit of credit card debt as well, but I'm not on welfare, I'm working 70 hours a week, but I'm managing and happen to have a fairly decent credit score to boot. Should I really be considering going back to become a nurse, from a lot of this thread it seems like i would be told I'm not being smart, but working a job where I sit at a computer and feel completely meaningless and am not using my degrees doesn't seem any smarter, it would really just be doing it for the money. I have definitely learned a lot since finishing my masters 4 years ago and am working on paying off at least my credit card debt before getting into the ADN nursing program, will be paying for that one out of pocket and then will see from there if I need to use any financial aid for future degrees. There's a difference between spreading awareness and being condescending.

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39 minutes ago, Golden_RN said:

No.  I did not "point/click" my way to a BSN.  I read and wrote a ton, provided presentations, studied science like pathophys and statistics, and I did 3 semesters of clinicals.

I also did not go bankrupt in the process.

Your experience is not all of our experience.

I think the OP is raising a bigger question than just the practicalities of completing a BSN.  He/she is also asking: "What is all this about?" and "Why are we doing this?"  It's a reasonable question.  I know someone with significant experience and hard to obtain certifications/credentials in another profession who experienced, close to the end of their career, a new professional qualification (that takes significant years of education to obtain) being required by their company to hold the same job and perform the same work.  This is not unusual.  The company can say:  "Our (insert job) are professionally qualified/competent as evidenced by their xyz degree/professional qualification." This limits entry to the profession and can result in less career movement upwards ($) by those who are already doing this type of work for the company but don't have the newly desired qualification.

Edited by Susie2310

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1 minute ago, umbdude said:

It's your personal choice to refuse getting more education. It's the hospitals' prerogative to set minimum educational standards. If you don't want to play the game, you won't get the prize.

That's the point of the article. There is no prize. I have 3 degrees and do not want or need more. Its just more debt. If I caved into the demands of the workforce demanding a new education for every single job available, I'd be a full time student, in a never ending array of higher education classes and certifications. That is what they want. This is why you need a license in PA to braid hair. Not joking. 

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klone has 13 years experience as a MSN, RN and specializes in Women's Health/OB Leadership.

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46 minutes ago, panurse9999 said:

The gist I am seeing and hearing, is that it is basically a huge pile of money spent, for an online, point and click, mail order degree.

Oh, wow. I missed this. How incredibly insulting, if you think that's all the degree is. The paper I wrote for my  (online) BSN senior thesis was published, and the QI project I did for my (online) MSN capstone, I was invited to present at the annual Rocky Mountain Evidence-Based Practice Symposium, and resulted in a practice change in the largest outpatient OB/Gyn practice in Colorado.

So, no. Not a "point and click mail order degree".

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7 minutes ago, Susie2310 said:

I think the OP is raising a bigger question than just the practicalities of completing a BSN.  He/she is also asking: "What is all this about?" and "Why are we doing this?"  It's a reasonable question.  I know someone with significant experience and hard to obtain certifications/credentials in another profession who experienced, close to the end of their career, a new professional qualification (that takes significant years of education to obtain) being required by their company to hold the same job and perform the same work.  This is not unusual.  The company can say:  "Our (insert job) are professionally qualified/competent as evidenced by their xyz degree/professional qualification." This limits entry to the profession and can result in less career movement upwards ($) by those who are already doing this type of work for the company but don't have the newly desired qualification."

Spot on perfect. Thank you for speaking to the point of the article, which of course extends to other higher education hoaxes/ pitfalls/ traps both in and out of the nursing profession. I get that the BSN is now considered entry level for hospitals, (that is not really the soap box issue) ...what I don't get is why RNs like me who have a BS and MA in other professions are cast off as useless/ worthless, and made to re-educate, just for the sake of a piece of paper in hand. This is what makes a mockery out of the entire higher ed system. My degrees, knowledge, work and skill set should be seen as an asset to the profession, yet it isn't. 

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14 minutes ago, panurse9999 said:

That's the point of the article. There is no prize. I have 3 degrees and do not want or need more. Its just more debt. If I caved into the demands of the workforce demanding a new education for every single job available, I'd be a full time student, in a never ending array of higher education classes and certifications. That is what they want. This is why you need a license in PA to braid hair. Not joking. 

I know a person who has been a full time student all her adult life and still suffers long periods of unemployment.  Her husband does not commend her behavior.  He thinks there is something wrong with her.  Fortunately, I do not think she has accumulated student loan debt along the way to make things worse, although one does wonder how she manages to pay for all that education since she is usually unemployed.

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14 minutes ago, klone said:

Oh, wow. I missed this. How incredibly insulting, if you think that's all the degree is. The paper I wrote for my  (online) BSN senior thesis was published, and the QI project I did for my (online) MSN capstone, I was invited to present at the annual Rocky Mountain Evidence-Based Practice Symposium, and resulted in a practice change in the largest outpatient OB/Gyn practice in Colorado.

So, no. Not a "point and click mail order degree".

From what I have seen, you are the outlier.  I do not disagree with the OP's description of "point and click" degree, in most cases.

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Pixie.RN has 18 years experience as a MSN, RN, EMT-P and specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CNE, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.

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26 minutes ago, klone said:

Oh, wow. I missed this. How incredibly insulting, if you think that's all the degree is. The paper I wrote for my  (online) BSN senior thesis was published, and the QI project I did for my (online) MSN capstone, I was invited to present at the annual Rocky Mountain Evidence-Based Practice Symposium, and resulted in a practice change in the largest outpatient OB/Gyn practice in Colorado.

So, no. Not a "point and click mail order degree".

Yeah, similar experience that I was invited to present a poster at a national conference after I sent in the abstract from my MSN capstone project that saved our ED more than $100K per year in terms of nursing time spent on a repetitive task that needed to change. It's not been point and click here either. 

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1 minute ago, Pixie.RN said:

Yeah, similar experience that I was invited to present a poster at a national conference after I sent in the abstract from my MSN capstone project that saved our ED more than $100K per year in terms of nursing time spent on a repetitive task that needed to change. It's not been point and click here either. 

I don't need a BSN or an MSN to identify the way hospitals and other facilities blow money and resources out the window by their outdated/ inefficient practices that are often the result of very poor leadership. For example, the standard computer documentation system in SNF is an inefficient and costly beast which basically prevents nurses from spending any time at the bedside, whatsoever. Redundant / repeat charting, and entering/ re-entered data, are just a couple of the inefficiencies. Pointed this out multiple times, fell on deaf ears. I could go on, but I digress. 

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Rose_Queen is a BSN, MSN, RN and specializes in OR, education.

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1 hour ago, panurse9999 said:

It appears that this very well written topic is being spoil tested by the many dissenting voices who would like the higher education tricks/traps and pitfalls/ hoaxes  to continue unabated , undebated, until truth is undone by disinformation

The point of a discussion is to bring many viewpoints to the table. It does not mean everyone has to agree. Your experience is your experience and no one can deny it. However, that doesn’t mean your experience is everyone’s experience. 

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On 5/16/2019 at 12:48 PM, TriciaJ said:

There is a lot of truth in your post.  At one time, nursing was an entry-level occupation.  The body of knowledge grew, and schooling became required to be a functional nurse.  No argument there.  But we've educated ourselves full circle.  Now we consider ourselves fit for loftier goals, and minimally trained UAP are providing the actual hands-on care.  

I also have no argument about BSN becoming the entry-to-practice standard.  But then it needs to be merged with the ADN programs and nurses still need to be taught how to nurse.  Advancing beyond BSN should not be possible without a certain level of hands-on experience.  How can you be a master of anything without having moved past being a novice?

My last job was at a university and I saw first-hand what an inflated bureaucracy the whole thing is and why it is so hideously expensive.  I know why college professors promote socialism:  they feed at the top of a socialist food chain so it works for them.

Free college?  Student loan forgiveness?  That's just buying votes with other people's money and a complete kick up the arse for people who've financed their education responsibly.  And that responsibility includes choosing a course of study that leads to gainful employment.

And when I hear someone say "I'm fifty and I'm finally realizing my dream to go to nursing school and I plan to get a master's!"  and everyone says "You go, girl!  You're never too old!"  I just want to scream.  Yes, rack up the debt when everyone else is starting to plan for retirement.  Deal with ageist employment practices.  Enjoy bariatric lifting at your age.  Read the new grad posts and ask yourself "Do I really need to do this to myself?"

Okay.  End of rant.

Good grief!  Yea, I fell for it.  Went back to school for BSN, then when I couldn't get employment, back for MSN, guess what, doing bedside nursing.  Ageism is alive and well, believe me, and I just get disgusted lifting 400 lbs patient, and it took 7-8 female staffers to move the guy, sliding with a board I am telling you, from one cart to the bed.  This is ridiculous!  I honestly think there should be a floor for bariatric persons where they have all the equipment and strong muscles for this.  I hurt my back it seems like every week, home to Epsom salts for the feet and a heating pad for the back.  I will join you in the rant.  

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Pixie.RN has 18 years experience as a MSN, RN, EMT-P and specializes in EMS, ED, Trauma, CNE, CEN, CPEN, TCRN.

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9 minutes ago, panurse9999 said:

I don't need a BSN or an MSN to identify the way hospitals and other facilities blow money and resources out the window by their outdated/ inefficient practices that are often the result of very poor leadership. For example, the standard computer documentation system in SNF is an inefficient and costly beast which basically prevents nurses from spending any time at the bedside, whatsoever. Redundant / repeat charting, and entering/ re-entered data, are just a couple of the inefficiencies. Pointed this out multiple times, fell on deaf ears. I could go on, but I digress. 

Never said you did. This was in response to saying we had "point and click" degrees. But yeah, deaf ears. I'm out. 

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