The Line b/t Respecting Wishes of Victim, Privacy, & Reporting

[SunnyPupRN]

I'm quite in shock, fumbling for words, as my fifth grader just had a sleepover with another girl last weekend and I was surprised that she had blocked all her phone calls. When I asked, she hemmed and hawed, and finally said that the girl had attempted to kiss her, "asked to have sex," wanted her to take her pants off, and that my child had to physically push her off. All of this while I was in the next room!

There's no doubt that there was some odd behaviour, but I never would have guessed this. When I went to wake them up in the morning, sure enough, they were in the same bed, even though there were two beds.

I asked my daughter why she didn't come to me, and she said she was in shock, and the girl never got "far." As a parent and nurse I want to advocate for her and protect her, but she insists she does not want the matter pursued. I feel torn between a duty and respecting my child's wishes and keeping her trust.

The primal part of my brain wants to go kick that kid's ass, but obviously that is not the answer. My child says she just does not want to keep talking about it or thinking about it, especially with investigators.

I don't want to make her feel like she doesn't have control or can't trust me. I feel gutted.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

- and if it is offensive that I balk at making a ' fricking ' phone call, well remember, you're not in my shoes, and your heart isn't torn in wondering if your child will trust you in the future again with sacred information if you blow it.

Don't be so sure about that. Many of the people posting have personal experience with pretty much the same thing that you have gone through. Some of our children might actually have been raped as well.

As to being "qualified," none of us are qualified to treat our own children after they have experienced a trauma of this sort. That is why it's considered unethical to do so no matter the training we have received prior.

And lastly, no, I do not agree that a little girl who has been victimized is capable of being a "perpetrator" in the sense that she should be reported to law enforcement. As said earlier, she likely does not have the capacity to understand she is victimizing anyone. That is NOT to say she should be left alone to continue to act out in this way, simply to say her actions should not be viewed as criminally actionable. Pretty much everyone on this thread has agreed that the best way to stop the cycle of abuse (and this situation illustrates clearly that abuse is the gift that keeps on giving) is to report the kid to someone who will HELP her, not punish or shame her.

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

I am going to take a different approach here than so of the others. I have worked as an inpatient pediatric and adolescent psych nurse and what I am going to say may shock others here. But here goes anyway.

Yes I agree that something is up with the other kid. You have to decide if you have a duty to report this not only so this other child gets help but also to prevent other children from being approached. I disagree that this other child has absolutely been abused. Just because a child acts out sexually doesn't mean they have been abused. While it may seem young to some fifth grade is the beginning of adolescence and all kinds of stirring start. When my own son was 7 I discovered him masturbating. I was concerned especially his school teacher told me he had told a story about a man coming over the wall in my backyard and "Playing" with him. I took him to a very well qualified child psychologist who spent three sessions with him and concluded that while he had a vivid and "delightful" Imagination she did not get any sense that he had been abused in any way and sent be to a bookstore to buy a book called "It's perfectly Normal" about how children mature sexually. I did spend a week or so in the back yard with my crossbow watching out for him but after that we let the whole thing go and he is currently a well adjusted happy 14 year old.

My advice is that if your daughter is not showing signs of psychological trauma, (poor appetite, sleeping too much or too little, isolating herself from other friends, too much time on the internet etc...) Let it be! She appears to have handled it appropriately but fending off the approach and cutting ties with this child. I have seen far too many kids shoved into the mental health system over things like this where they learn quickly that their is something wrong with them. What I would do and this is only me is to praise her for her courage and strength, let her know that you are available to talk about anything with her anytime and that if she is having trouble processing her feelings ask her if she wants to talk about it. My son and I talk about everything including sex when the topic comes up. I try never to be judgmental or shocked just happy that he is comfortable talking to me.

So your child has asked you to back off and let her be about this - and that's what I would do unless as I said she starts showing signs or symptoms of depression or anxiety.

Hppy

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

Yes I agree that something is up with the other kid. You have to decide if you have a duty to report this not only so this other child gets help but also to prevent other children from being approached. I disagree that this other child has absolutely been abused. Just because a child acts out sexually doesn't mean they have been abused.

I agree that it isn't absolute. However, the child told the OP's D that she had had sex with her cousin. That is a huge red flag that absolutely must be investigated. Could be untrue, could be they are both very young and don't even understand what having sex really means, could mean there is an older cousin abusing this young girl. As aggressive as they were, her actions do not seem like those of someone coming into their sexuality; imo they are indicative of some kind of problem. They might well be a re-enactment of behavior she herself has experienced.

IMO it is critical to get this girl some help from a professional who can figure out what is going on. If she hasn't been abused, she needs some guidance about proper ways to deal with her sexual feelings.

As for the OP, ultimately she is in charge of her D and will of course make the decision of how to proceed. She has verbalized being very upset, even very angry about the situation. She mentions that she was once victimized herself. None of us know if those feelings were displayed to her child when she learned what happened-without even realizing it or even being aware of her reaction, it nevertheless could result in some confusing feelings for her D as well. It sure seems like it couldn't hurt for her daughter to at least meet with a competent therapist just to see how she has processed the incident and to make sure she understands she did nothing wrong, that her feelings about it are valid, and that she should always feel confident to confide in an adult if ever any person touches her inappropriately or makes her uncomfortable. I'm sure the OP has her D's best interests in mind and will be watching her D for any signs that something is amiss, regardless of whether or not she chooses to seek professional guidance at this time.

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

I agree that it isn't absolute. However, the child told the OP's D that she had had sex with her cousin. That is a huge red flag that absolutely must be investigated. Could be untrue, could be they are both very young and don't even understand what having sex really means, could mean there is an older cousin abusing this young girl.

I agree wholeheartedly _still since her daughter wants to maintain her own privacy - OP can report to CPC or DCPS - that she has reason to believe that this other child may be in jeopardy based on her telling the OP's daughter that the Cousin had sex with her. It is then up to CPS to investigate.

I just took a class on the duties of mandated reporters in the state of California and learned the following - A mandated reporter (In California) has a duty to report any reasonably suspected abuse of an elder or child that they encounter in their professional capacity as a (teacher, therapist, nurse, doctor, police officer etc...) When acting as a private citizen the duty to report becomes a moral and ethical one. I can only say what I would do in such circumstances. While I was not sexually abused as a child, I and my siblings were relentlessly abused emotionally and physically by my psychiatrically ill mother and EVERYONE - teachers, religious leaders etc... knew about but did nothing. I would not want a child to go through what I went through. So yes I would report to CPS that I have a reasonable suspicion that this child was being abused - get my 19 digit report number and allow CPS to take it from there.

As for the OP's initial comments - I sympathize - everyone's first instinct is and should be to act in the best interest of their own child. That her child is able to talk to her about this is great and should be encouraged but not pushed on lest the child begin to feel that she should feel some kind of lasting trauma from something that she handled in an entirely appropriate way.

Hppy

[FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN]

Sexual abuse is one possible reason for your child's friend's behavior. It's not the only one. Children now have access to Mediaography in a way they never did before. This child could be acting out something she saw. Either way, an intervention by a responsible adult is necessary. An anonymous call to CPS will not compromise your intention to not involve your daughter in an investigation.

As far as intervening for your daughter, I think it is appropriate that she sees a counselor. I don't think you need to call the police. Seeing a counselor might be difficult for your child, But it won't traumatize her.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

I've never actually reported anything to CPS. If the OP called their hotline and said something along the lines of: "I would like to report possible sexual abuse of a child. Susie Jones of San Jose, CA, who attends John Smith elementary school, is in the 5th grade and reported to my daughter that she has had sex with her cousin. I don't know her parents, I don't know this cousin. My daughter is not interested in being interviewed about this conversation, but I felt it was my responsibility to report this as possible sexual abuse of a minor child. I would also like to remain anonymous."

Why couldn't this work?

[hppygr8ful, ASN, RN, EMT-I]

I've never actually reported anything to CPS. If the OP called their hotline and said something along the lines of: "I would like to report possible sexual abuse of a child. Susie Jones of San Jose, CA, who attends John Smith elementary school, is in the 5th grade and reported to my daughter that she has had sex with her cousin. I don't know her parents, I don't know this cousin. My daughter is not interested in being interviewed about this conversation, but I felt it was my responsibility to report this as possible sexual abuse of a minor child. I would also like to remain anonymous."

Why couldn't this work?

In California this would absolutely work for both mandated and non-mandated reporter's - while a mandated reporter needs to give their name it is still kept confidential during the course of the investigation.

Hppy

[randomANaccount]

The hotline(s) and systems vary state-to-state, so this may not be accurate for everyone. In NY, this would work. They would ask for your information (in case followup is needed), but you can decline to give it. There are also separate lines for laypeople and for people who are mandated reporters, even if they were not at work when the 'event' occurred. Yes, in NY mandated reporters are only required to report what they saw in a professional capacity, but they still need to use the professionals' line if they report any thing else.

In my nursing school program (where we got the "mandated reporter training,") they didn't go over any of this and I was shocked. In my teaching program we had a 3-hour course in how to do this. No one in my nursing program knows about the two hotlines, they didn't give us the numbers, they basically told us "if you see something that looks like child abuse, you have to report it to your charge nurse and that's it. Okay bye."

Source: Was a NYS teacher, had to use the line.

[AngelKissed857, BSN, RN]

Reporting may feel like you're taking your daughter's control away- but not reporting doesn't allow her to learn NOT to be a victim, to take charge and hold others responsible for wrong behavior, and the power that comes from that. AND, you are an RN, have knowledge of another child being sexually abused and are legally mandated to report it. What if the situation were reversed, your child was being abused by a family member and you didn't know? I do not believe that she will traumatized by the interviewing- make sure it is an officer that has special training in interviewing children and sexual trauma victims, how YOU respond will have the biggest impact on how she feels about the situation and her own well-being. That's my two cents-for what it's worth.

[wanna_be]

I haven't read through all the comments so I imagine this may have been underlined previously. I hate to say it, OP, but even though this is a personal--not professional--situation, you as a nurse are a mandatory reporter. By law, you must report this. In fact, with enough information given you would also implicate all of us as mandatory reporters. I work with a lot of teens and mandatory reporting is an every day part of my job. It is never easy to break the news to someone that you have to report--and I have a lot of compassion for you right now, because you and your daughter did not ask for this awful situation. The bottom line is that not only does mandatory reporting serve to protect, it also provides structure: if these things occur, then by law, this action must be taken. Our job as nurses is to ensure the safety of our patients (and by extension, all people); it is not our job, nor are we equipped, to decide how to exercise the law. We must follow it. Set an example that this behavior is not tolerated. Non-consensual contact should ALWAYS be taken seriously, and reporting this demonstrates that you are taking a stand for your daughter.

[Dogen]

I also haven't read all of the responses, which is unusual for me, but there are a couple of things going on here. The first is the way OP's daughter responded to the incident. She may feel shame and fear, and by not addressing these emotions OP is not helping her to cope with what happened, OP would be reinforcing that victims of sexual assault should be ashamed and not tell anyone. It's difficult to tell your child that you can't do what they want, but consider the long-term ramifications of that decision in both her later life and the lives of others she may encounter in a similar situation. Helping your daughter avoid the situation is not giving her control, it's giving the abuser (the cousin, the friend, etc) control. Talking about why it's important to report - so important that the law requires you to do it - and that you want to make sure she and her friend are safe in the future is one way of approaching it that may help your daughter to re-conceptualize the event as something bad that needs to be talked about rather than something bad she should feel ashamed of.

The other issue is that of mandated reporting. In Washington an anonymous report doesn't fulfill the requirement for mandatory reporters, so if you don't know the requirements in your state you should look them up before making a report. But you should absolutely make the report, for the sake of both children. Allowing a child to be sexually abused harms all of us.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

It must be very difficult to be in your position, and I understand that your first concern is for your child. Of course it is, you're a parent. Others have already addressed being a mandated reporter and all of that, so I won't. I just want to add in a different perspective and say that I wish someone had spoken up for me, instead of looking the other way. I never attacked another child, but maybe I wouldn't be quite so... "broken" still in my late 20s if someone had given a damn.

That little girl might not have anyone to help her.

"Have I gone mad?" The Mad Hatter

"I'm afraid so. You're extremely broken

..but I'll tell you a secret. All the best people are.". THIS keeps me going pretty well! May it console you.