The Kamala Harris Thread

heron said:

What on earth are you talking about? I wasn't discussing political independents. I was giving an example of a pejorative label applied by the far right to those who oppose them, aka false advertising, aka propaganda.

Google "Overton window".

I think he's trying to make some partisan  point about propaganda, not certain. 

heron said:

What on earth are you talking about? I wasn't discussing political independents. I was giving an example of a pejorative label applied by the far right to those who oppose them, aka false advertising, aka propaganda.

Google "Overton window".

I asked "what lies and propaganda about Harris are 50% of independents believing that lead them to say that Harris is too liberal or progressive?"

You're response was "to begin with there's the conservative claim that anyone to the left of say Clarence Thomas or Joe Manchin is a far-left radical."

I then pointed out that those independents are left of Thomas, so by your logic that would make them far-left radicals themselves.

And now, you're asking, "what on earth am I talking about?"

Since you directly answered my question about political independents,  I assumed your answer was about political independents. 

My apologies.  I should know better.

heron said:

What on earth are you talking about? I wasn't discussing political independents. I was giving an example of a pejorative label applied by the far right to those who oppose them, aka false advertising, aka propaganda.

Google "Overton window".

I also pointed out legitimate reasons as to why they might think she's too liberal.

And, I'm wondering who you would consider to be too liberal or progressive?   Then we could compare Harris to that person.

My guess is there isn't anyone you would consider to be too liberal. 

Beerman said:

I also pointed out legitimate reasons as to why they might think she's too liberal.

And, I'm wondering who you would consider to be too liberal or progressive?   Then we could compare Harris to that person.

My guess is there isn't anyone you would consider to be too liberal. 

What a weird deviation from a discussion about how propaganda influences perception.  

I would posit that most things seem too liberal when your political party of choice is toying with the elements of right wing authoritarianism.  

Crusades said:

I'm asking you to describe what you saw in relation to your speculation of Trump's dementia/mental illness. 

So another one you will not answer. .....

 

I saw what other people saw; an old angry man with cognitive and mental health issues.  What did you see? 

Beerman said:

I asked "what lies and propaganda about Harris are 50% of independents believing that lead them to say that Harris is too liberal or progressive?"

You're response was "to begin with there's the conservative claim that anyone to the left of say Clarence Thomas or Joe Manchin is a far-left radical."

I then pointed out that those independents are left of Thomas, so by your logic that would make them far-left radicals themselves.

And now, you're asking, "what on earth am I talking about?"

Since you directly answered my question about political independents,  I assumed your answer was about political independents. 

My apologies.  I should know better.

You're right, I didn't relate my comment back to the specific group under discussion. My bad. Not going to do that now, either. It would involve a long dissertation on the deliberate distortion of context and its effect on the political zeitgeist. "Too liberal" is a value judgement that depends, in part, on one's frame of reference. Changing that frame of reference can change that value judgement.

As for the focus group participants being "far left radicals", I'm not sure what you're driving at. Are you asking what I think about them or what right-wingers would call them?

toomuchbaloney said:

I saw what other people saw; an old angry man with cognitive and mental health issues.  What did you see? 

I saw a man with narcissistic tendencies that allowed his ego to fluster him. I saw Harris exploit that. (As to be expected)

He had a hard time finalizing a point and transitioning to the next topic. He wasn't lisning to the words of Harris but was focusing on what he would say next instead. He failed to transition to other topics because he got stuck on something that he precieved hurt his ego. One can't debate by constantly being in defence. 

He was obviously flustered and agitated. However this  did not qualify with the behavior associated with FL dementia as " shouting, nane calling, exagered forceful physical behaviors(raising fist, banging on desk etc. ) Although he became more animated, it wasn't in an extreem inappropriate way. 

FL Dementia is a progressive syndrome and marked by changes other than a person's baseline. 

I would say there is an attention deficit more than FL Dementia. Although it can be argued that some of these symptoms exist, they do not amount to a diagnosis of Frontal Lobe Dementia.  

I posted the document in which I used for the analysis. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824317/#:~:text=Diagnostic criteria&text=Possible bvFTD requires a patient,of dysfunction on cognitive testing).

Quote

Behavior or personality changes, such as swearing, stealing, more interest in sex, or a decline in hygiene habits

 

Socially inappropriate, impulsive, or repetitive behaviors

 

Impaired judgment

 

Apathy

 

Lack of empathy

 

Decreased self awareness

 

Loss of interest in normal daily activities

 

Emotional withdrawal from others

 

Loss of energy and drive

 

Trouble using or understanding language, such as a hard time naming objects, expressing words, or knowing the meanings of words

 

Hesitation when speaking

 

Less frequent speech

physical symptoms, such as:

 

Tremors

 

Muscle spasms or weakness

 

Stiffness

 

Poor coordination or balance

 

Trouble swallowing

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/dementia/frontotemporal-dementia#:~:text=Key points about frontotemporal dementia&text=Symptoms often first occur between,to get worse over time.

Tweety said:

No need to take the bait.  What ever you say will be shot back with a "well that doesn't necessarily mean mental illness and you're not qualified to make a diagnosis anyway".  

But Biden's cognitive decline was obvious you see.  Trump's isn't without a medical evaluation and proof of what you're talking about.  You can't win.  LOL

Correct. I'm not as easy to goad and manipulate as Trump is. 

We each, in our own way, push back against the hypocrisy and baloney that are such a big part of Trump's narrative.

Crusades said:

I saw a man with narcissistic tendencies that allowed his ego to fluster him. I saw Harris exploit that. (As to be expected)

He had a hard time finalizing a point and transitioning to the next topic. He wasn't lisning to the words of Harris but was focusing on what he would say next instead. He failed to transition to other topics because he got stuck on something that he precieved hurt his ego. One can't debate by constantly being in defence. 

He was obviously flustered and agitated. However this  did not qualify with the behavior associated with FL dementia as " shouting, nane calling, exagered forceful physical behaviors(raising fist, banging on desk etc. ) Although he became more animated, it wasn't in an extreem inappropriate way. 

FL Dementia is a progressive syndrome and marked by changes other than a person's baseline. 

I would say there is an attention deficit more than FL Dementia. Although it can be argued that some of these symptoms exist, they do not amount to a diagnosis of Frontal Lobe Dementia.  

I posted the document in which I used for the analysis. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4824317/#:~:text=Diagnostic criteria&text=Possible bvFTD requires a patient,of dysfunction on cognitive testing).

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/dementia/frontotemporal-dementia#:~:text=Key points about frontotemporal dementia&text=Symptoms often first occur between,to get worse over time.

It sounds like you also saw and observed a man who is unfit to be president of the USA.  

Tweety said:

No need to take the bait.  What ever you say will be shot back with a "well that doesn't necessarily mean mental illness and you're not qualified to make a diagnosis anyway".  

But Biden's cognitive decline was obvious you see.  Trump's isn't without a medical evaluation and proof of what you're talking about.  You can't win.  LOL

I gave a full description of observations of Trump's behavior  that directly related to the diagnostic  criteria of Frontal Lobe dementia while conceeding some behavior could be concurent with behaviors of Trump. Several examples were provide with credible references. 

This is the type of analysis I was requesting from baloney. 

Also note, I have never said that Trump definitely does not have dementia/mental illness. Only that the behaviors do not qualify as far as I can observe. I have bias so this was a good opportunity to receive info outside of my bias. I was provided generic symptoms. 

I also do not go on giving Trump a clear bill of health as though he has been completely deemed cognitively fit and 100% mentally sound either. 

You're right tho, no one here is qualified to make or dismiss any diagnosis because he hasn't had a medical evaluation. 

toomuchbaloney said:

It sounds like you also saw and observed a man who is unfit to be president of the USA.  

It seems you saw a man who was not competent to be President and continue to deny any other cognitive decline other than age related eventhough the democrat party moved to drop him from the race.