"The Jesus Factor"

[FireStarterRN]

A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

Golf talk is not boring Tom, but , in my experience, it is not always truthful!:lol2:

Now that is a below the belt punch

I could answer this (It's a loaded statement and it's response is equally loaded. In fact, this response in itself is loaded).

But I won't.

Not here. Not on a public board dedicated to Nursing - not discussions over the Christian religion.

But I would like to point out - please don't assume that those who say "No" are speaking from ignorance or from a lack of knowledge. For all you know, I could be a theologian who works part time as a nurse.

respectfully,

Are you a theologian who works part time as a nurse. One of my best Golfing Buddies is a Pastor Has his main degree in Theology. He is also a nurse. Brother Phil we always address him as. Except when he wins a hole. Then its Brother Bubba.

[kcalohagirl]

Just a couple quick thoughts:

To AspiringBlackNurse: I was reading a thread you started last night while I had downtime at work, and first off, I want to applaud you for considering nursing as a career. You sound like an insightful, caring individual. However, as you have not started nursing school yet, there are some intricacies of the profession you may not have yet encountered. Someone mentioned this earlier in the thread (I had a LOT of downtime last night) but I can understand if it may have been missed, so just let me restate.

A part of the nurse/patient relationship is about power. The patient is often at the most powerless point in his/her life, depending on the severity of the illness. He/she may be dependent on his/her caregivers fore every little thing. Even if they are simply post-proceure and are in pretty good shape except for the fact that the nurse wants them to call for assistance before they get out of bed to go to the bathroom, that is still taking away that person's normal level of independence and "power" if you will.

In this situation, it may be possible that the patient might feel that if he offends his/her caregiver in any way, he/she might not relieve the level of care that would have been given had the offence not occurred. Therefore, if a Christian nurse (or any other religion, just sticking with this one because of the OP) brings up the subject of God, Jesus, and getting on the good side of the lord before you die because it's the only way you can get to heaven (as it seems this nurse was doing) it is serving the nurse's purposes, not those of the patient.

As nurses, it is our job and our role to be there for the patients and serve their needs first. Should a patient ask you to pray with him? By all means, go ahead. But I would caution you to keep in mind that the patient's brand of Christianity (even at this point) may not be the same as your own, and you could be headed onto uncomfortable ground.

[leslie :-D]

I don't think it is about having something against Jesus, but rather proselytizing.

very true, natania.

this has nothing to do with what Christians believe.

but rather, inflicting unsolicited duress on a vulnerable pt. population.

trust me, in the event of spiritual distress, the dying will initiate conversation re: their fears or woes.

but just because they mention "Heaven" or an afterlife, does not readily mean they are talking about Christianity.

it is truly up to the chaplain to discuss religious/spiritual issues.

if the pt asks a specific question, then you can give a specific answer.

if their questions are vague, it's important to seek clarification.

don't assume.

and most important, the dying do not need any additional or undue pressures.

sensitivity is key during this very labile transition.

leslie

[reesern63, RN]

I know this thread is extremely long already, but I just had to put in my 2 cents (for what it's worth). :)

As a Born-Again Christian, I see NOTHING wrong with your coworker doing what she does. In fact, if she did not do this, then she wouldn't be following Christ completely. Above any law, I follow Christ first. He sent Us on the Great Commission which is to share His love with the world, even our patients (well, especially our dying patients). I know there is an afterlife... there is a Heaven and a Hell out there, and it's not because God wants to send us to hell, but because we are sinful and have sinned against a righteous and holy God. That is why He sent Jesus to us, because we need Him. He paid for our sin. It's that simple. If we choose to not believe in Him, we must pay for our sins in hell. We can't be let into heaven without the atoning blood of Jesus. Jesus said it..... I didnt make this up.

As I understand it, your coworker believes this very much (as do I).

Another thing.. I really DONT KNOW what it is people have against Jesus, anyways. Have you ever read a Bible? Read any of the Gospels? I'd like you to point out ONE thing He did that was wrong or evil.

You can't. His entire being is all about love. And that is why your coworker is witnessing to her pts, because she loves mankind and wants them to know her savior.

This is something only we Christians can understand so I don't expect everyone else who does not know the Lord to understand at all.

That is your belief. You are not being paid to prostelytize. If you want to preach, then do volunteer medical missionary work where you can incorporate the two. Otherwise, you need to be mindful of what your pts. needs are, not meeting the needs of your faith.

Please do not be so condescending as to presume that those of us opposed to nurses preaching at their pts have no knowledge of Scripture. You would be surprised how well versed (pun intended) many of us are.

Again, if you are approaching this from the POV of what your faith requires of you, then you are thinking of your needs first. That is not patient focused care.

Interesting...to me, evangelize means to simply share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not necessarily to persuade someone to be a Christian. Thanks for posting this. Now I see where some people are coming from. Everyone has a different meaning on things.

Just about every definition of "evangelize" states it means to attempt to convert someone. That's why I think it's a bad choice of words. It's not just my definition.

[teeituptom, BSN, RN]

I must have made someone mad, right now all around my homes. Thunder and Lightning are putting on one shuckins of a light and sound show.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Man I went to sleep at page 33 and boy what I missed. Can I Make an observation? We had been talking for 33 pages and had come to a little agreement on how and if to talk about spiitual matters. Then Aspiring writes one post say she would "evangelize" or share her faith if she got the chance. She made clear it was only if she had the opportunity and she wouldn't shove her views down anyones throat but she immediately gets this negative response that she is proselytizing and putting her own needs above those of her pts. I can see why she got upset! I would have felt attacked in her postition. Can I just through something out there for thought? Sometimes non evangelical Christians and non Christians have this knee-jerk negative response to an evangelical mentioning the name of Jesus? I'm not trying to stir up dissention, but there are reasons Christians often feel picked on (please notice I did not SAY and do not MEAN persecuted).

I explained my reaction and perhaps it was a bit knee jerked. It's a matter of opinion I suppose if the person feels attacked or not. It's also a matter of interpretation of what the poster meant by "opportunity", which she later clarified as a smiilar position to most of us on the thread.

I agree that people sometimes are too quick to get on the defensive and have a negative reaction to Jesus stuff, although I doubt for the most part it's not the "mere mention of the name Jesus", because most of us here his name daily, among coworkers on TV, on the radio and on billboards. I work with a lot of Chrsitians and hear the talk many times a day.

Also if Christians get a bad reaction from us, or make us sit up and take notice and get on the defensive, there's some responsiblity that needs to be shared by the Christians. We weren't born Christian haters.

Many people are very insulting to Christians and two wrongs don't make that right.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Another thing.. I really DONT KNOW what it is people have against Jesus, anyways. Have you ever read a Bible? Read any of the Gospels? I'd like you to point out ONE thing He did that was wrong or evil.

I have read the Bible through and through several times, attended Bible study for many years.

I personally have nothing against Jesus whatsoever. He's a role model of mine and I wish I was more like Him.

I do have a lot of problems with many of his followers however, and that's what this thread is about, not Jesus.

[EmmaG, RN]

Uhhh DUH! They'll tell me whether or not they want to hear it.

When I said "it's not a big deal", I'm talking about it's not a big deal to stop talking about the gospel when someone doesn't care to hear it.

Earlier on this thread, there are posts explaining how this could very well not occur, even though the patient might be VERY uncomfortable with what the nurse is doing.

[LydiaNN]

very true, natania.

this has nothing to do with what Christians believe.

but rather, inflicting unsolicited duress on a vulnerable pt. population.

trust me, in the event of spiritual distress, the dying will initiate conversation re: their fears or woes.

but just because they mention "Heaven" or an afterlife, does not readily mean they are talking about Christianity.

it is truly up to the chaplain to discuss religious/spiritual issues.

if the pt asks a specific question, then you can give a specific answer.

if their questions are vague, it's important to seek clarification.

don't assume.

and most important, the dying do not need any additional or undue pressures.

sensitivity is key during this very labile transition.

leslie

:yeahthat:

[MuddaMia]

I do have a lot of problems with many of his followers however, and that's what this thread is about, not Jesus.

:yeahthat:

[Skrawberri]

hi skrawberri, :)

do you believe the pt should pursue the nurse in his/her desire to learn about Christ?

or would you bring it up first?

leslie

Well, it all depends. I in no way support "Christians" who go around telling people they are headed off to hell (although God says we are all destined for hell without Jesus). You can't attract flies with vinegar. I wouldn't outright say, "You need to accept Jesus. Do you know Jesus?" Jesus is a very powerful name. I might bring up a topic such as death if I was in a hospice situation, like, "What do you believe happens when you die?" or just ask them if they have any religious beliefs. I don't outright state my beliefs, but begin with a conversation, in love... If they refuse to talk about it, then I stop talking about it. But if I was a hospice nurse, yes, I would share my faith with my patients. Jesus calls us to ACTION, not just sit around and act all nice, hoping people will notice. Yes, we are supposed to be the Light of the world, but even atheists are nice people. How is "acting nice" toward people explaining their need for a Savior, sin, and Hope???

That is your belief. You are not being paid to prostelytize. If you want to preach, then do volunteer medical missionary work where you can incorporate the two. Otherwise, you need to be mindful of what your pts. needs are, not meeting the needs of your faith.

Please do not be so condescending as to presume that those of us opposed to nurses preaching at their pts have no knowledge of Scripture. You would be surprised how well versed (pun intended) many of us are.

Again, if you are approaching this from the POV of what your faith requires of you, then you are thinking of your needs first. That is not patient focused care.

And that is why I find your post ironic, as a Christian. I AM thinking of the patient first, not only the patient, but everyone I ever meet. I could just shut my mouth (like many Christians do) and say nothing at all, and let someone walk off into eternity without the salvation of Christ.

I've brought up the topic of Jesus to coworkers when I used to work at Dillard's. I've brought Him up with the barhoppers downtown. Many people have actually thanked me for doing so. I'm very sorry you may have had bad experiences with judgmental Christians, but that is not me..... I am far from perfect, but I honestly feel that if someone comes into my life, pt or otherwise, it is for a reason. My whole world is Jesus, I love Him so much... It's not a selfish, "I want you to believe what I believe because *I* want you to!" No, it's because Jesus wishes for not one to perish.

I do not answer to you, or to anyone on here.

Like I said in a previous post, if a pt wishes not to discuss religion, I will not push it. We all have free will.

[Chaoticdreams33, MSN, RN]

Wow, what a very interesting 41 pages! HOT HOT HOT topic!

I myself am not religious and I do not agree with many peoples religious views, but I do try my hardest to accept them. And I most certainly do not try to convince people to believe or not believe anything!

I always ask about spirituality as that is an important part of a nursing assessment, and I always offer my ear to listen and a call to the chaplain if the patient so desires. I think that in this, and any area of strong beliefs (take abortion as an example), it is very easy to get our personal beliefs mixed up in patient care.

We need to be careful and take a second to evaluate the situation, and always put the patient first.

With that said, I don't find anything wrong with a nurse discussing religion/god/jesus/the bible with a patient who has exressed interest in discussing it.

But imposing views is a different story, and even if "god" says that is what you should do, I still think it is unethical.

Just my