"The Jesus Factor"

[FireStarterRN]

A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

[leslie :-D]

if a pt wishes not to discuss religion, I will not push it. We all have free will.

but there are many pts who wonder aloud, "where am i going when i die?"

this needs to be handled delicately.

i am certain Jesus would not want anyone spreading His name at the risk of making another uncomfortable and helpless.

often these pts will not state their needs or feelings.

it's not as black and white as thinking they will merely speak up.

many are feeling hopeless, apathetic, fearful.

there may be perceived barriers to care if they dare speak their mind.

the only time it is appropriate to discuss Christ is when the pt plainly asks, "would you please tell me about Christ?"

anything more vague would be risking more pt isolation and despair.

i sincerely pray that you will come to understand this by the time you become a nurse.

true compassion IS exemplified through action.

your actions as a nurse will have more impact on your pts, more than a stack of Bibles will ever convey.

leslie

[fronkey bean]

Just about every definition of "evangelize" states it means to attempt to convert someone. That's why I think it's a bad choice of words. It's not just my definition.

Great thought reese. I had never looked up the meaning of the word either. To most of the evangelicals sharing their faith involves hoping someone will accept Jesus but not expecting it .

I guess it is a subtle difference but it is an important one. I think any time someone talks about something important to them they hope someone will understand and possibly even agree w/ their position, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are going to argue or push their opinion on someone else.

[EmmaG, RN]

And that is why I find your post ironic, as a Christian. I AM thinking of the patient first, not only the patient, but everyone I ever meet. I could just shut my mouth (like many Christians do) and say nothing at all, and let someone walk off into eternity without the salvation of Christ.

And as a nurse, unless you are working for a religious-based entity, that is exactly what you do. Any discussions of this type should be patient led, patient centered. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way your post reads, you feel it is your duty to lead people to Christ. *see quote immediately following*

I've brought up the topic of Jesus to coworkers when I used to work at Dillard's. I've brought Him up with the barhoppers downtown.

And these were presumably people over whom you did not hold a position of power. They were also presumably people who were not vulnerable as a sick/dying person would be.

Many people have actually thanked me for doing so. I'm very sorry you may have had bad experiences with judgmental Christians, but that is not me..... I am far from perfect, but I honestly feel that if someone comes into my life, pt or otherwise, it is for a reason. My whole world is Jesus, I love Him so much... It's not a selfish, "I want you to believe what I believe because *I* want you to!" No, it's because Jesus wishes for not one to perish.

Actually, yes it is selfish. As you describe it, you are fulfilling a personal need of your own, not that of your patients, no matter how much YOU may feel they need this salvation.

I do not answer to you, or to anyone on here.

But if you wish to be employed as a nurse, you do answer to your employer and the BON.

Like I said in a previous post, if a pt wishes not to discuss religion, I will not push it. We all have free will.

And this is ironic, too.

The patient is in a totally dependent, vulnerable position. None more so than one who is in the process of dying. You are in the position of power. Do not assume that they will speak up and stop you when you "bring up the topic of Jesus". And do not assume if they don't stop you, they are interested in being saved.

[fronkey bean]

And that is why I find your post ironic, as a Christian. I AM thinking of the patient first, not only the patient, but everyone I ever meet. I could just shut my mouth (like many Christians do) and say nothing at all, and let someone walk off into eternity without the salvation of Christ.

I've brought up the topic of Jesus to coworkers when I used to work at Dillard's. I've brought Him up with the barhoppers downtown. Many people have actually thanked me for doing so. I'm very sorry you may have had bad experiences with judgmental Christians, but that is not me..... I am far from perfect, but I honestly feel that if someone comes into my life, pt or otherwise, it is for a reason. My whole world is Jesus, I love Him so much... It's not a selfish, "I want you to believe what I believe because *I* want you to!" No, it's because Jesus wishes for not one to perish.

I agree w/ your right to share Jesus and, as one who was once "shared" w/ and am very grateful for it, I think you are right about there being many who really want to hear.

Just tw thoughts. First, remember that while Jesus often put Himself in places where He was likely to be in contact w/ unbelievers, He waited for them to come to Him. He never hesitated to tell someone about the kingdom but He also never held anyone and made them listen. Told the disciples to do the same -if people wouldn't listen shake the dust off and go elsewhere.

I do not answer to you, or to anyone on here.

Like I said in a previous post, if a pt wishes not to discuss religion, I will not push it. We all have free will.

Second thought is "a gentle word turns away wrath" Not everyone believes in Jesus and even some that do don't necessarily think just like us. A soft tone goes a long way towards making Christ attractive to others. I know that is what attracted me, the peace I saw in the people who witnessed to and mentored me.

[EmmaG, RN]

but there are many pts who wonder aloud, "where am i going when i die?"

this needs to be handled delicately.

i am certain Jesus would not want anyone spreading His name at the risk of making another uncomfortable and helpless.

often these pts will not state their needs or feelings.

it's not as black and white as thinking they will merely speak up.

many are feeling hopeless, apathetic, fearful.

there may be perceived barriers to care if they dare speak their mind.

the only time it is appropriate to discuss Christ is when the pt plainly asks, "would you please tell me about Christ?"

anything more vague would be risking more pt isolation and despair.

i sincerely pray that you will come to understand this by the time you become a nurse.

true compassion IS exemplified through action.

your actions as a nurse will have more impact on your pts, more than a stack of Bibles will ever convey.

leslie

Exactly.

[EmmaG, RN]

Well, it all depends. I in no way support "Christians" who go around telling people they are headed off to hell (although God says we are all destined for hell without Jesus). You can't attract flies with vinegar. I wouldn't outright say, "You need to accept Jesus. Do you know Jesus?" Jesus is a very powerful name. I might bring up a topic such as death if I was in a hospice situation, like, "What do you believe happens when you die?" or just ask them if they have any religious beliefs.

It is not in your position as their nurse to do so.

But if I was a hospice nurse, yes, I would share my faith with my patients. Jesus calls us to ACTION, not just sit around and act all nice, hoping people will notice.

Then you need to go to work for a Christian-based hospice. One that expects their employees to witness. Otherwise, what you describe here is so far out of bounds, it's outta the park altogether.

Yes, we are supposed to be the Light of the world, but even atheists are nice people. How is "acting nice" toward people explaining their need for a Savior, sin, and Hope???

But even, eh?

Who determines that they have that need? How do you KNOW they have that need?

Do you understand where I (and alot of people on this thread) are going with this?

My own personal beliefs are of no consequence.

Patient led. Patient centered.

[reesern63, RN]

Well, it all depends. I in no way support "Christians" who go around telling people they are headed off to hell (although God says we are all destined for hell without Jesus). You can't attract flies with vinegar. I wouldn't outright say, "You need to accept Jesus. Do you know Jesus?" Jesus is a very powerful name. I might bring up a topic such as death if I was in a hospice situation, like, "What do you believe happens when you die?" or just ask them if they have any religious beliefs. I don't outright state my beliefs, but begin with a conversation, in love... If they refuse to talk about it, then I stop talking about it. But if I was a hospice nurse, yes, I would share my faith with my patients. Jesus calls us to ACTION, not just sit around and act all nice, hoping people will notice. Yes, we are supposed to be the Light of the world, but even atheists are nice people. How is "acting nice" toward people explaining their need for a Savior, sin, and Hope???

Sigh...that is your faith's interpretation of the Scriptures. Honestly, I don't even think it's appropriate to ask a hospice pt what he/she believes happens after death. That's just fishing. Again, if you want to preach/minister in conjunction with being a nurse, then become trained as a parish nurse or do missionary work. But to do this in the regular emplyment setting is just inappropriate. You are meeting your needs. Jesus may have called you based on your beliefs. Your beliefs are not necessarily the pt's.

For the record, I worked hospice for several years. So I do have experience in this area.

[EmmaG, RN]

I wonder what the "fallout" might be, if, for instance, we were talking about a radical Muslim proselytizing while nursing....or say a member of Syung Moon's church, or maybe one from Aton Levey's Church of Satan in San Francisco???? I dare say, I believe the tolerance level would plummet. This is precisely why we shouldn't bang on this door.

I liked what one poster said when she gave her very personal experience in a less than stellar hospitalization. Often as Christians, I have noticed that when opportunity is staring them straight in the face, they seem to miss it, because they have their OWN agenda, recipe, or whatever to follow, and all gets lost in the shuffle. Had the poster received her pain medications, been ministered to physically first, and had her needs met, she might just have been a bit more receptive to other points of healing in her life.....the examples that Christ gave in His own life to us was just that.....HEALING and meeting the need of the individual before conviction of sin in their life....

I think it is completely arrogant and not even Biblically supported to do otherwise. Yes, "go and preach the gospel to all nations"....but HOW IS THAT ACCOMPLISHED?? By telling people "well, I got the Jesus Factor all squared away!"? I try to imagine St. Paul running up to Timothy in Cyprus and saying the same thing.....I am thinkin' that might have put a damper on the advancement of the faith at that point.

This nurse may well be an 'awesome, awesome' nurse, but she lacks spiritual maturity. A mature Christian knows how to put her own self to the side, and "wait on the Lord".... Timing is everything. The key to converting others is to first respect them as human beings.

As for some who are expressing complaint that when anyone mentions Christian ideas or values, that there is a backlash toward them.....

didn't Christ tell you this would happen??

"Many will persecute you for My name's sake...."

Don't whine about it...".give them your other cheek also...." that is what sets you apart from the rest of the herd.....

It's all part of growing up....spiritually. crni

Found it :)

CRNI has some excellent posts on this thread.

Another https://allnurses.com/forums/2290921-post285.html

[reesern63, RN]

And that is why I find your post ironic, as a Christian. I AM thinking of the patient first, not only the patient, but everyone I ever meet. I could just shut my mouth (like many Christians do) and say nothing at all, and let someone walk off into eternity without the salvation of Christ.

I've brought up the topic of Jesus to coworkers when I used to work at Dillard's. I've brought Him up with the barhoppers downtown. Many people have actually thanked me for doing so. I'm very sorry you may have had bad experiences with judgmental Christians, but that is not me..... I am far from perfect, but I honestly feel that if someone comes into my life, pt or otherwise, it is for a reason. My whole world is Jesus, I love Him so much... It's not a selfish, "I want you to believe what I believe because *I* want you to!" No, it's because Jesus wishes for not one to perish.

I do not answer to you, or to anyone on here.

Like I said in a previous post, if a pt wishes not to discuss religion, I will not push it. We all have free will.

You shouldn't even be initiating it. By initiating it, you are meeting your needs. And bringing it up at Dillard's or in a bar is far different from doing so with a sick, vulnerable pt at the most emotional time of life. That to me is reprehensible. You've got an unfair advantage. If you can't see that, I'm sorry.

I wonder how you would feel if the tables were turned and it was someone of another faith who felt compelled to preach to you because their prophet/God commanded it.

[unapt576]

The term "Jesus Factor" is just so flippant and glib. How can a woman who professes a deep abiding love for and faith in Christ use that term.?

It gives me pause. Is she really concerned about her patient's spiritual needs, or is she, deep down, maybe enjoying exerting a little control over another person who might or might not be in a position to complain?:uhoh21:

Melanie

[CHATSDALE]

i think that it shows a deep prejudice to assume that the christian are automatically 'evangelizing' prostelytizing' if they speak their mind..

i have had many patients speak to me about religion.i feel that those who will not listen are not good nurses..you are not a robot who comes in and does your duty and walks out without acknowledging your pt as a human being

i don't do yogi, it would take an army to twist me out of some of those position but i don't believe that it gives the devil and open road to your soul, children watch harry potter and have no problem goiing to church or prayiing...have never took off on a broomstick

i have mentioned this before but i can't believe the number of nurses who feel like they are power tripping over patients..i hope i never have a nurse who feels like they are more powerful because they are nurses while i am a patient, maybe i am old and onery but i believe in standing up for myself [i FORBID ANYONE TO AGREE WITH THE 'OLD' THING]

[SweetLadyJ]

Just about every definition of "evangelize" states it means to attempt to convert someone. That's why I think it's a bad choice of words. It's not just my definition.

Oh, I know it wasn't just your definition. As for me, I really don't get hung up on definitions of words. I just know that Christians are to evangelize and share the Gospel to all nations (Matthews 28:18-20).