"The Jesus Factor"

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A collegue of mine in the ICU is soon moving to Home Health for several reasons, both personal and otherwise. At the nurses station the other day, she and one of the doctors were talking, and she mentioned to him, regarding one of his patients, that "The Jesus factor was all squared away". This co-worker is a very active Christian and so is the MD in question. I asked her what that meant and she said that she liked to make sure where people were going when they die. She said that that was one reason why she wanted to do home health and hospice, was to help people find Jesus before they die.

She is an awesome, awesome nurse, but I was always thought that this is not ethical. I would never discuss religion with a patient unless they wanted to and I don't think it's correct to try to convert them. She's basically going to be evangelizing her Home Health patients. I find that disturbing.

Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.
excellent chance that the pt won't even speak up, r/t fear, depression, pain, exhaustion, confusion or any other trauma an end-of-life pt deals with.

if you care to read this thread, the "issues" are quite clear.

leslie

Then there is also every chance the patient may welcome it due to fear, depression, pain, etc. Nothing wrong with offering.

As far as the issues being quite quite clear. Ive read all the posts, and the issues are all real to each individual. But that is individual from what Ive read here and not collective.In fact I saw little collectiveness in issues.

If that nurse chooses to discuss religion that is alright with me. Now my choice though if I was dying would be to at least talk about Golf. I suppose that is my religion. Golf is very religious in its own way. Look at all the Saints in golf. St Andrews, St Georges, St Jack, St Arnie, St Lee.

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Specializes in ED, ICU, PACU.

If that nurse chooses to discuss religion that is alright with me. Now my choice though if I was dying would be to at least talk about Golf. I suppose that is my religion. Golf is very religious in its own way. Look at all the Saints in golf. St Andrews, St Georges, St Jack, St Arnie, St Lee.

Hey, thought you might be interested knowing that there is a patron saint of golf-St Christopher. :chuckle

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Jesus commanded believers in the Bible before He went up to Heaven and told them "Go to all the world" and share the message of forgiveness and love, eternal life. It is an act of obedience she is doing to God, regardless of denomination.

She has a burden for lost souls. Meeting the spiritual needs of a patient is not only ethical, but in the holistic approach it is required. Meeting the need. When she stands before her Maker one day she wants to know that she made the effort.

You're speaking here of the needs of the nurse, not the patient.
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:wink2: My papa (WWII vet) told me "there are no atheists in fox holes" so it stands to reason people receiving end of life care usually want to believe there is something else. But the conversation should still be patient initiated. It seems that it would come up with just about all Hospice patients at some point.

My grandpa (WWII vet too) remained an agnostic on his death bed. He actually told the priest not to bother wasting his time with him. His rationale was what could the priest tell him that he wouldn't be finding out about first hand soon enough?:lol2: He was a funny man, raised devoutly catholic but became agnostic as an adult:)

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Specializes in Neuro.
Jesus commanded believers in the Bible before He went up to Heaven and told them "Go to all the world" and share the message of forgiveness and love, eternal life. It is an act of obedience she is doing to God, regardless of denomination.

She has a burden for lost souls. Meeting the spiritual needs of a patient is not only ethical, but in the holistic approach it is required. Meeting the need. When she stands before her Maker one day she wants to know that she made the effort.

I can't tell you over the years of working post op and ICU, Hospice and the like how much this means to patients and families. Many feel helpless to even ask a question let alone find a nurse who is willing to pray with them. Often the floodgates open and though the loved one may be dying, the healing of the soul begins....

I am sure if she is being led by the Lord, she is sensitive to how she approaches those who are dying. She may be their last chance to hear of the message. A Chaplain can't be everywhere at once.

What is unethical, would be if she stood there as Judge and Jury, which I doubt is the case. Personally I wish that more nurses as she is met those needs.

God will be her judge, not us. You asked a great question!

God bless you.

The thing is, you say that the nurse should meet the patient's spiritual needs, but then you automatically assume that the patient's spiritual needs include Jesus and Christianity. I believe Leslie said it best when she said that pts may or may not be looking for religion. They are often looking for validation that their life was worthwhile.

You are right: it IS the nurse's responsibility to meet the patient's spiritual needs when possible. However, in order to do this, the nurse first needs to ASSESS the patient's spiritual needs. If in doing so, the patient expresses some desire to learn more about Christianity, then by golly, have at it. If the patient is more concerned with doing a life review and realizing that their life was fulfilling, perhaps Jesus (or ANY religious figure, for that matter) isn't necessarily involved in this conversation. I believe strongly that people can be spiritual without necessarily being religious and fulfilling a patient's spiritual needs does not necessarily include religion. Take cues from your patient and meet their needs, and not your own.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, ER, L&D, ICU, OR, Educator.
It is an act of obedience she is doing to God, regardless of denomination.

This is only her (and your) interpretation.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, ER, L&D, ICU, OR, Educator.
She has a burden for lost souls.

God will be her judge, not us.

Yes..."HER BURDEN", not the patient's.

The "judge" in this case does not appear to be God. And the holistic nursing approach is all about what is right for the uniquely individual patient, not the self-determined nurse.

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

I have a question out of curiousity to those that think this nurse did the right thing by being obedient to Jesus Christ...(and I am not trying to initiate a flame war, here). How would YOU feel if you were in the position of the client, and a nurse that is a Muslim extremist, a Jew, Mormon, Pagan or anything else came and told you that you needed to confess to Allah, the goddess Athena or the Dali Lama before you died? And, would it be right for them to decide to possibly deny you the care due to you by the Patient Bill of Rights because you didn't believe in what they insisted you should believe in? Especially since you didn't seek it out because you were firm in your personal belief system?

Christian or not; there is usually some level of fear before an anticipated death. Maybe even some doubts in what one believed in all along. Suffering, illness and fear does not discriminate. To have someone infuse their belief system is a violation to their rights to believe as they choose to.

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Specializes in ICU;CCU;Telemetry;L&D;Hospice;ER/Trauma;.

To teeituptom: you might not see any issues if you are of the same minds-set or belief system as the patient laying there....but what if this over-zealous "Jesus-Factor" nurse decides that it is HER duty as a God fearing Christian to convert the dying Muslim man, or the Jewish woman? Do you see any issues with that??? This kind of overbearance is insulting to some.....tantamount to serving pork to a Jew, or a female nurse touching the hand of a male Muslim, (in some sects this is seen as inappropriate and sexual in connotation....non-muslims are after all, seen as unclean...infidels)....so THERE ARE BIG ISSUES HERE.

Again, this is an un-welcomed intrusion on someone's very intimate and valuable time, not unlike an intrusive unwanted hug....this is wrong....and it doesn't matter that she thinks she's doing God's work, she's not doing God's work.....she is imposing HER will and belief system on someone else, which if you look at that simplistically, is no different than trying to control another's spirit....which in biblical terms is not of God....'NOT MY WILL, BUT THINE BE DONE'.....

One thing that has always really bothered me about some evangelical Christians is that they like to pick and choose which parts of the Bible they decide to practice, which parts they like to ignore.....

Some of what is preached from very "successful" pulpits in Christian circles would have people believing that to NOT intrude is being a wimp Christian. These same will use fact and fiction, intermingle them as if TRUTH, and call it Gospel....to achieve their 'goal', which is to build huge churches like Saddleback, for instance, or WillowCreek....all in an outward appearance of being 'successful'.....but in nearly all of these examples, they are remarkably similar to the Church of Laodicea as mentioned in the book of Revelations....they are neither cold nor hot.....and they will be spewed out of His mouth....

Some who buy into the "Jesus Factor" of ministry, are deceived into believing that this is what being a good Christian is all about....nothing could be further from the truth....The truth is, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A 'GOOD CHRISTIAN'.....we are all as filthy rags in comparison to His holiness...and there is nothing WE can do on our own steam that bridges this....it never was and never will be about OUR SELVES....if anyone ever says "Jesus Factor squared away" to me, it is a clear sign they have no clue and very little respect for the holiness of One Life who was blameless.....it cheapens the very fabric of His life...and that sickens me...(this is how I feel...and what I believe)

When someone intrusively barrels into your room, on your deathbed, and decides you need to 'come to Jesus', isn't that imposing THEIR will on you, and not invoking a spirit of peace, respect, and comfort?

Now, for all the believers out there......

Who/what sort of "spirit" does this type of behaviour have it's root in???

St. Paul said "test the spirits".....I think this is one time when that is a wise and helpful decision.

crni

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Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

And, it may not end with accepting Jesus Christ into your heart...this may then lead into "Are you a Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic ..." and so on. Some feel that you are not 'saved' until you receive the 'Holy Spirit' by speaking in tongues, being baptized, or other ceremonial acts. Some say you cannot wear pants or make up, others say that you can have 'one beer', others say that you cannot listen to the 'devil's music' or even watch television. There are some that believe that Jehovah Witnesses are not Christians, that Lutherans are not really saved and the band plays on. What about those that believe in faith healing, only (in that case, they probably wouldn't even be in a hospital to encounter a nurse or doctor) or dance with snakes? There will always be conflict in the faiths. And a patient should not have to be forced to humor the needs of the nurse to account for her own salvation.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
And, it may not end with accepting Jesus Christ into your heart...this may then lead into "Are you a Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholic ..." and so on. Some feel that you are not 'saved' until you receive the 'Holy Spirit' by speaking in tongues, being baptized, or other ceremonial acts. Some say you cannot wear pants or make up, others say that you can have 'one beer', others say that you cannot listen to the 'devil's music' or even watch television. There are some that believe that Jehovah Witnesses are not Christians, that Lutherans are not really saved and the band plays on. What about those that believe in faith healing, only (in that case, they probably wouldn't even be in a hospital to encounter a nurse or doctor) or dance with snakes? There will always be conflict in the faiths. And a patient should not have to be forced to humor the needs of the nurse to account for her own salvation.

I live in a fairly urban area where we have to accept peoples' differences (isnt' the alternative crazy thinking?). I have my religious gobbledigook and I keep it to myself. Don't impose your own religious gobbledigook on me or I will try to get you fired because you are essentially a bigot with a mouth that should stay shut more often.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, ER, L&D, ICU, OR, Educator.

Does David Koresh (Aug 17, 1959 - April 19, 1993), leader of the Branch Davidians, ring a bell?

Just continue to think for yourselves. Everyone needs beliefs and a polarizing spot...but common sense always, always plays a role.

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