Texas Abortion Law

[Charlcie, BSN, RN]

I wanted to open up dialogue about the law passed in Texas this week. It essentially made any abortion after detection of fetal heartbeat illegal. This can be as early as 6 weeks, before the pregnant person is even aware of the pregnancy. 

I am concerned about the implications this could mean for patients who are unable to access care... 

Another question I have (help me legal side of AN LOL) is this: so part of the law says that any private citizen can sue an entity involved in aiding with an illegal abortion. This includes providers, their staff, and even the ride service driver. The private citizen does not even need to know any party involved including the person terminating the pregnancy. If they win they are entitled to up to $10k in damages... but how can you claim damages when you don't even know the parties involved (and therefore would not be impacted) by the procedure being carried out?

I hope this does not go against guidelines, but regardless of where you land politically abortion is a medical procedure and falls under the realm of healthcare and I feel like it should be discussed. 

Please keep things civil, I know this is a topic that many are passionate about. 

[Ernest]

I like your question; however, I think it is in the wrong context.  Too much of anything is harmful.  When women were not able to have access to abortions and therefore took extreme measures leading to mutilation and death, there was a defined need for intervention. 

But just like my favorite dessert - cheesecake.....too much is too much and detrimental to society.

The African American birth rate is and has been flat for years. Why?  Because abortion is being used as a birth control measure.  

Let's put it in a different perspective about environmental toxicology.  A study involving an Alabama paper mill town  on a major river recently revealed alarming rates of birth defects and miscarriages.  60% of the unborn children within 250 miles of the plant are affected with over 50% of those babies dying due to miscarriage.

That announcement would send us protesting the Alabama plant.  But we are losing 3000 babies per day due to abortion.  When do we as nurses and healthcare providers take a stand and say, enough is enough and our industry cannot be used this way any longer?  Or does anyone reading this post think over 1 Million abortions every year at the hands of healthcare providers is really okay?  I am sure most would agree that too much of anything is too much.  

Is a woman's right for healthcare decision-making really the issue when the abortion rate of young black women in several major cities outpaces the birth rate?! This would be an outrage if the babies were lost to anything other than elective abortions. I wonder what the nurses who helped during the Tuskegee syphilis experiments think now.  What were they thinking then?

Texas is taking a moral stand.  Babies with beating hearts whether wanted by the parents or not are still babies with beating hearts that need our love, compassion and care  we show everyday according to accepted standards of care for unborn babies in OB units everywhere across this country.

[MunoRN, RN]

The law sets the  fetal age limit at 6 weeks.  At 6 weeks they are embryos, not "babies" and they don't have heartbeats.

I'm anti-abortion in that ideally we can make them unnecessary by effectively dealing with the underlying causes, which are primarily financial limitations and disparities in access to contraceptive and other family planning services.

Black American are more likely to choose to have an abortion because they are more likely to be poor and less likely to have comparable access to contraceptive / family planning services.

Considering that unplanned pregnancy is one of the leading causes of severe poverty and homelessness in young black women, it pretty clearly doesn't make any sense to try and fix the underlying issues by forcing them to carry out an unplanned pregnancy.

I would agree that we shouldn't be aborting babies once they are 'alive', and there's reasonable debate about when that occurs, but it's nowhere near 6 weeks.

[AllAboutHumans]

As a Social Worker as well as a nurse, I have seen the coin on both sides and don't quite understand why it is even a debate about whether a woman has a say in the medical decisions for her body. In recent news people talk about if the COVID vaccine was mandated it is a violation of their rights. It is appalling that people can't see the hypocrisy of mandating a women to keep a child that for whatever reason she does not feel she wants or can care for. Bringing an "unwanted" child in to the world weights heavily on our systems such as, the foster care system, mental health system, prison system, welfare system, etc. (there is plenty of evidenced based research that shows the increase in trauma for individuals in the foster care system and the connection to the stated above issues). Our foster systems across the country can not take care of the mass of children it has in it now. Our mental health systems are not putting a dent in treating the individuals in their system. Adding more is just over running and making our systems less effective. 

The Heart Beat Act does not make any sense either, we pull the plug on individuals that have a heartbeat and no brain activity ALL the time. Just because a fetus has a heartbeat does not mean that they have consciousness which is essentially life. 

It is easy to compare the two situations, a plant causing birth defects to "wanted babies" and abortion rates in a demographic of women BUT they are not the same. A woman has the right to what happens with her body, if she decides that she for whatever reason does not want a child, that is her choice. Many women get pregnant because their birth control fails, they do not have access to affordable birth control, lack of appropriate sex education, the list can go on and on. As nurses it is our responsibility to advocate for our patients and their choices. It is also not the responsibility of our government or religious bodies to make medical decisions for woman. We as nurses need to put our own beliefs and bias aside and do what is best for our patients. Any nurse supporting this act may need to re-evaluate their career choice. 

[Charlcie, BSN, RN]

On 9/5/2021 at 6:08 PM, Ernest said:

The African American birth rate is and has been flat for years. Why?  Because abortion is being used as a birth control measure.  

I agree that abortion should not be use as a birthcontrol measure when so many effective and safe options are available. However, this bill undermines a precedent and set women's right back. Everyone should have the right to access this care. 

 

[SunCityInsPhysical, BSN, RN]

I completed my Nursing degree in 78.  As a responsible, mature adult who went to school in the OLD DAYS. I'd like to remind everyone that we've had 50 plus years of opportunity to teach young women about birth control measures, I received first-generation sex ED in school. I managed to navigate to 68 yrs of age without getting myself into trouble or having the government(taxpayers)  bail me out. 

Unfortunately, our school curriculums have changed for the worse. Our children are not being taught the skills needed to be able to behave in health promoting ways,  become a responsible adults and citizens.

Our children are being taught permissiveness, slef indulgence and to "expect" the government to foot the bill.  

The lack of self-discipline, responsibility for one's self, and the consequences of our actions is the problem.

  Abortion is NOT healthcare. It is a medical intervention. It is reasonable in a medical emergency or rape. 

Repeat abortions show a lack of responsibility, maturity, self-respect.  I feel sad for the women who make themselves available to be used for sex. They are feeding the male sex-machine.  This is NOT love, it seldom leads to a quality relationship and lifestyle.  

Women...it's time to take back our power.  Do NOT let men use you.  

 I seldom see or hear anyone in the media or politics talking about women being used by men for their own gratification. The ME TOO movement is just lip service.  Live your convictions or bear the consequences. 

They should be teaching and promoting PREGNANCY PREVENTION.....Is that not what PLANNED PARENTHOOD should be????  Birth-control pills, IUDs, and other means are cheap.  Women have money for sexy clothes, bling, perfume, manicures, pedicures, wax jobs. They think or have been taught that nightclubbing, Wild partying is their right. OK, you want to be wild, great.  Just be smart and protect yourself.     It's time they mature and be self-responsible.  The taxpayers should NOT be footing the bill.  

Unfortunately, there are millions of children who weren't aborted who have had the misfortune to have been born to these immature irresponsible people. Many of them got the short end of the stick, haven't gotten the care, guidance, and nurturing they needed and deserve. Sadly, we are seeing the results in society.  My heart goes out to them.

Shame on neglectful selfish women. Hang your heads in shame....

My praise to those single moms who stepped up to the plate. Who struggled to raise good kids. 

My praise to those moms who gave their children healthy or not, up for adoption.  

My Praise to the adoptive parents who cherish and raise these children.  

I was fortunate to have had good guidance. I'm proud that I disciplined myself to live a responsible lifestyle.  I had 4 miscarriages before a successful delivery. I worked hard and did without when needed and raised a good son.  The proof is that he commented, "What happened?"

The analytical and logical answer is that we as a society turned a blind eye. I hope we can turn it around. 

  Sign me, Old School.  

 

 

[Orion81RN]

16 hours ago, SunCityInsPhysical said:

I completed my Nursing degree in 78.  As a responsible, mature adult who went to school in the OLD DAYS. I'd like to remind everyone that we've had 50 plus years of opportunity to teach young women about birth control measures, I received first-generation sex ED in school. I managed to navigate to 68 yrs of age without getting myself into trouble or having the government(taxpayers)  bail me out. 

Unfortunately, our school curriculums have changed for the worse. Our children are not being taught the skills needed to be able to behave in health promoting ways,  become a responsible adults and citizens.

Our children are being taught permissiveness, slef indulgence and to "expect" the government to foot the bill.  

The lack of self-discipline, responsibility for one's self, and the consequences of our actions is the problem.

  Abortion is NOT healthcare. It is a medical intervention. It is reasonable in a medical emergency or rape. 

Repeat abortions show a lack of responsibility, maturity, self-respect.  I feel sad for the women who make themselves available to be used for sex. They are feeding the male sex-machine.  This is NOT love, it seldom leads to a quality relationship and lifestyle.  

Women...it's time to take back our power.  Do NOT let men use you.  

 I seldom see or hear anyone in the media or politics talking about women being used by men for their own gratification. The ME TOO movement is just lip service.  Live your convictions or bear the consequences. 

They should be teaching and promoting PREGNANCY PREVENTION.....Is that not what PLANNED PARENTHOOD should be????  Birth-control pills, IUDs, and other means are cheap.  Women have money for sexy clothes, bling, perfume, manicures, pedicures, wax jobs. They think or have been taught that nightclubbing, Wild partying is their right. OK, you want to be wild, great.  Just be smart and protect yourself.     It's time they mature and be self-responsible.  The taxpayers should NOT be footing the bill.  

Unfortunately, there are millions of children who weren't aborted who have had the misfortune to have been born to these immature irresponsible people. Many of them got the short end of the stick, haven't gotten the care, guidance, and nurturing they needed and deserve. Sadly, we are seeing the results in society.  My heart goes out to them.

Shame on neglectful selfish women. Hang your heads in shame....

My praise to those single moms who stepped up to the plate. Who struggled to raise good kids. 

My praise to those moms who gave their children healthy or not, up for adoption.  

My Praise to the adoptive parents who cherish and raise these children.  

I was fortunate to have had good guidance. I'm proud that I disciplined myself to live a responsible lifestyle.  I had 4 miscarriages before a successful delivery. I worked hard and did without when needed and raised a good son.  The proof is that he commented, "What happened?"

The analytical and logical answer is that we as a society turned a blind eye. I hope we can turn it around. 

  Sign me, Old School.  

 

 

Shaming is literally what leads to narcissism. It’s emotional trauma and your are now pushing your trauma onto us. You were so severely shamed you don’t even realize that people deserve to be treated kindly and with compassion and understanding. You literally are incapable of putting yourself in other people’s shoes. You walked right up to it and said, no. I won’t have empathy for you. Because even though I acknowledge the lack of resources people have, I personally never got pregnant. (Said with such judgement too) That’s not putting yourself in someone else’s shoes. Putting yourself in someone else’s shoes encompasses envisioning yourself in their circumstance with THEIR level of health, intelligence, privilege, resources etc and understanding how someone else can make a decision you wouldn’t bc your life experience is different. Sign you, narcissistic. Point blank period. Your post screams to psychologists, “great, more kids coming to me to help unpack all of THAT (you) and shake out the toxic stuff you teach your kids. 

[cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN]

Ahh, where are our Ethics Committees now?  I personally do not agree with the tattle tail portion of the law. I came out of the late 70's and I was very naïve. I had no clue about the political back stories about Planned Parent hood, I thought it was set up to educate women about their available choices related to pregnancy, and that the main portion of education was preventative, and that abortion was the last resort choice. Nursing students went to these clinics to learn how to educate clients about their choices. Back then we didn't have many choices in birth control. Now there are many options, injections, pills, morning after pill that can be requested at the pharmacy,(I am not sure without researching if this is state specific or not). So my point is over time we have many more options prior to ever reaching the choice of an abortion, but it seems to me that education was reversed and has made abortion the main part of the conversation instead of all the other alternatives. I grew up very rural but learned about BC in school during our separated (boys vs girls) health classes. Even back then with parental approval one could get BCP when you were in your teens. Now prophylactic's are available for anyone both free and low cost. It seems education has been the failure to maintain and/or even keep up with the changing tides.  I think we all have our own strong personal feelings about abortion, and I even grew up during the time of back ally abortions and the legalizing of them, I felt then the same as I do now, abortion should not be the first choice, both pregnancy and abortion it not good for the physical and mental health of our young girls. I know a few who have had one, and more often than not they have their regrets and have had to learn to deal with it the best way they know how, so it does effect mental health as well as physical.  We have to do something to reverse the idea that abortion comes first rather than last.

[Rose_Queen, BSN, MSN, RN]

32 minutes ago, cinlou said:

It seems education has been the failure to maintain and/or even keep up with the changing tides. 

When you have schools teaching “abstinence only” what else could you expect?

35 minutes ago, cinlou said:

seems to me that education was reversed and has made abortion the main part of the conversation instead of all the other alternatives.

34% of Planned Parenthood work is related to contraception, only 3% is abortion related. 
https://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/9313/9611/7194/Planned_Parenthood_By_The_Numbers.pdf

[cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN]

15 minutes ago, Rose_Queen said:

When you have schools teaching “abstinence only” what else could you expect?

exactly,  and thank you for the stats, but that is not what the people hear, they only hear the word abortion and think that is the only choice (my opinion)

 

[LeChien, BSN, RN]

This whole abortion law really p**ses me off!

I'm a childfree woman. I am SO grateful and blessed to have obtained a tubal in 2017 while I still had the chance. BUT, as we all know, tubals have a rare chance of failing. So far (knock on wood) my tubal has been great and I've been so happy with it. But living in Texas, what happens if my tubal fails, and I find out I'm pregnant after my potential fetus has a heartbeat? Here I am, taking precautions with permanent birth control, as a grown married woman. And these men would be mandating me to carry a child I would absolutely not want. How is any of that fair?

It's just so wrong that they think they can force people to have unwanted babies! I'd rather see an abortion in the first trimester than someone being forced to carry an unwanted child, birth it, and either end up giving it to the system where nobody else wants it, abusing it, or killing it.

Just my two cents and rant. Thanks for listening.

[cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN]

sounds like you took on your responsibility to the best you could to prevent that from happening. Unfortunately there is lack of education at home and in schools for  prevention methods other than abortion. Don't get me wrong, I am not against abortion as a last resort method.