Across Ohio, and the nation, the drive is on to require a BSN to secure...or continue...employment in acute and critical care settings. While the research data shows improved outcomes in these settings with a high level of BSN staffing, there are problems with this push. Some systems are giving experienced ADN's as few as two years to secure their BSN, yet these healthcare systems are failing to meet the commitment expected of these ADN's with a commitment to these experienced ADN's in securing their BSN. Tuition reimbursement plans consistently fail to meet the cost currently incurred in returning to school.
I saw the hand-writing on the wall, and secured my BSN before it became mandated. But my employers tuition reimbursement plan at work covered, at best, half the cost of one semester. This lack financial commitment to the educational advancement of experienced ADN's leaves these nurses angry and upset..feeling hospital administration are trying to get something for nothing, perhaps in order to let attrition thin the ranks of ADN's in acute and critical care settings. This attrition will, in turn, allow healthcare systems to hire in new grad BSN's at a lower starting salary than the experienced ADN's they will be replacing.
Until nurses stop being doormats, start acting like the professionals we are, and demanding the respect and benefits that derive from that professional status...nothing will change.
Sorry, I still don't get why people think it's the employer's responsibility and not the individual professional's.
Here's the thing. Say one is an ADN, Diploma, (or even *gasp* an LPN) who has worked acute care for many years successfully, rolled with the punches, did what they needed to do to get the job done--and is good at what they do, patient outcomes successful, taking all the required trainings, orienting all over the place to float when needed, the whole 9 yards.
One day, whilst going about your business of patient care, you are told that you have to obtain a BSN to do--wait for it--the exact same job you have been successfully doing for years. At great financial strain. Tuition reimbursement, while a nice benefit, does little in way of paying for this great financial strain. It is awesome to pay for certifications--which last I checked one doesn't need a BSN to obtain.
Bottom line--if a facility wants their nurses to do the exact same job for the exact same pay that last week they had "the best team ever" and this week it is "find another job if you don't get a BSN" What is the motive in that?
A couple things "Magnet Status" which is a huge feather in the cap of your DON, this "mandate" that by 2020 all nurses will have their BSN or be....I dunno, fired in droves?! Or bragging rights that all of their nurses are BSN's. Which doesn't mean a thing if you have not a clue how to take care of a patient.
More often than not, it is the nurses who have been with the facility the longest that this happens to. Every day. If you are a nurse in your late 40's and early 50's the last thing I would want to take on is a great deal of debt. That gets you absolutely nothing more than what you have today but a piece of paper on your wall, and a better sense of theory......which we all must be using currently...but we will "understand" the concept more? Seriously?
If I were young and my parents were paying my way through college (at great financial stain to them) then by all means....I'd get my masters! (Wait, 2 of my kids are doing that as we speak). But to add to an already strained budget at no other perk (you will get $5.00 an hour more as a BSN!!
The hospitals in my area might pay 25 cents more per hour for a BSN, but some don't pay more at all. There is no such thing as tuition reimbursement around here, except for LPN to RN. There is no money for RN to BSN.
Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
What purpose would a BSN serve? (you asked yourself). Preserving your ability to make a living seems like a good incentive to me. The state boards are only one entity that can define the basic degree. Market forces seem to be trumping state requirements in this case. Anyone who didn't get their BSN was living in a daze for the past three decades.
They may not be in a daze....they may have had a successful career without a BSN and felt NO need to spend money for something they didn't need. To take experienced nurses and suddenly tell them they are not worthy without incurring debt for initials after their name when it adds nothing to their value as an experienced bedside RN is just plain wrong.
We shall see when all these BSN grads are told when they are 55 years old that the are not worthy without a MSN for the bedside how pro-education they are then.
Here's the thing. Say one is an ADN, Diploma, (or even *gasp* an LPN) who has worked acute care for many years successfully, rolled with the punches, did what they needed to do to get the job done--and is good at what they do, patient outcomes successful, taking all the required trainings, orienting all over the place to float when needed, the whole 9 yards.
One day, whilst going about your business of patient care, you are told that you have to obtain a BSN to do--wait for it--the exact same job you have been successfully doing for years. At great financial strain. Tuition reimbursement, while a nice benefit, does little in way of paying for this great financial strain. It is awesome to pay for certifications--which last I checked one doesn't need a BSN to obtain.
Bottom line--if a facility wants their nurses to do the exact same job for the exact same pay that last week they had "the best team ever" and this week it is "find another job if you don't get a BSN" What is the motive in that?
A couple things "Magnet Status" which is a huge feather in the cap of your DON, this "mandate" that by 2020 all nurses will have their BSN or be....I dunno, fired in droves?! Or bragging rights that all of their nurses are BSN's. Which doesn't mean a thing if you have not a clue how to take care of a patient.
More often than not, it is the nurses who have been with the facility the longest that this happens to. Every day. If you are a nurse in your late 40's and early 50's the last thing I would want to take on is a great deal of debt. That gets you absolutely nothing more than what you have today but a piece of paper on your wall, and a better sense of theory......which we all must be using currently...but we will "understand" the concept more? Seriously?
If I were young and my parents were paying my way through college (at great financial stain to them) then by all means....I'd get my masters! (Wait, 2 of my kids are doing that as we speak). But to add to an already strained budget at no other perk (you will get $5.00 an hour more as a BSN!!
If it is not broke, why are we trying to fix it?
Every time this conversation happens, all the people who are opposed to returning to school keep harping about how unreasonable it is to expect people to take on the "great deal of debt" and "severe financial strain" involved in completing a BSN. I went back to school of my own free will and with no employer tuition assistance (or pressure to return to school), because there were things I wanted to do in my career that would require a BSN. Also, faculty at the excellent hospital-based diploma program I originally attended encouraged us from Day One to consider the diploma an entry level credential, not a terminal degree, and to plan on returning to school for a BSN (at least). I went to a program at a reputable state uni near my home, which had a BSN completion program designed for working RNs. The "full-time" curriculum consisted of one day and one evening a week. I don't recall what I paid for it, but I do recall that the cost was reasonable enough that I was able to easily pay out of pocket as I went, while continuing to work full-time. No crushing student debt, no financial hardship.
Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.
"I just don't see what the big deal is"
Because it would not get me somewhere I want to go. I am doing specialty cert for that and the main reason? The money I would spend on it is going into the much more important retirement fund...............
I went to a program at a reputable state uni near my home, which had a BSN completion program designed for working RNs. The "full-time" curriculum consisted of one day and one evening a week. I don't recall what I paid for it, but I do recall that the cost was reasonable enough that I was able to easily pay out of pocket as I went, while continuing to work full-time. No crushing student debt, no financial hardship.
I just don't see what the big deal is.
Reasonably-priced BSN completion programs designed for working nurses don't exist in many places. My state U charges $600 per credit, the local tech college charges $450 per credit, and neither BSN program allows part-time study. I am not a veteran. I don't work at the local hospital. I finally escaped the student loan trap years ago, and I have no desire to go back down the rabbit hole.
I just did my BSN at WGU for about $3600 - and then I was able to get a large tax credit to offset most of that. There are quite a few sub 10K programs (ULL is another) out there so you definitely don't have to spend $30K for an accredited RN to BSN program. I paid for my degree myself. I didn't NEED it, but it's nice to have just in case I do. =)
It is a nice perk to offer as part of an employment package, but just that, a perk. It isn't something that can be expected. It is a little embarrassing really that nurses have to be coerced into higher education.
Really? I know a woman who is an experienced nurse, a BSN from the 1980s. But if she were ordered back to school today, she could not do it! Why? Because there's no time and no money for it! She is sole income for her family. She works a regular ft job, picks up per-diem work at a second hospital, does in-home private duty work as time permits. She has three children, two still in college. One graduated, but can't find a job and there are school loan payments due. Her husband hasn't qualified for disability, and brings in no income. They have a mortgage on their home. They financially support his mother. They are flat-broke, and live paycheck to paycheck and sometimes, they can't even manage that and family members pay their bills. After all the job losses in manufacturing, finance, retail, management, just how many nurses and teachers are now the family breadwinner? Going back to school may not even be feasible for many nurses! Did you ever stop to think about that?
I consider myself quite well-acquainted with TODAY'S diploma RN and ADRN programs, because Pennsylvania still has a lot of those, and I studied curricula of 7-8 nursing programs before picking one. TODAY's diploma and ADRN have loads of college coursework built into them, as well as pharms, patho, legalese, etc. And remember that all of diploma RN, ADRN, and BSRN sit for and pass the exact same NCLEX-RN exam. All three of those types of programs are equally suited to doing actual hands-on nursing. When you look at the RN to BSN bridge, what exactly does it add? Well, for a person who has no college degree, it's a baccalaureate degree. For a person with an associate degree, it's a baccalaureate degree. For a person who already has the clinical skills to be a highly competent and yes, competitive, floor nurse, what does it offer? A baccalaureate degree. Statistics. How to research and how to write papers. Leadership aka, a bit of managerial training, a bit of HR training maybe. A bit of public health training that was probably already in today's associate degree or diploma RN program. About 30% gen ed college courses. Basically, it's all potatoes and no meat. LOL
So, I keep in touch with the graduates from my diploma school cohort, most of whom are taking their courses for BSN. And each and every one of them that I've asked said "This provides no additional clinical skills or assessment skills or patient care skills whatsoever. It's a lot of researching and writing papers. No actual nursing." Yep. Because what they needed for the actual job was adequately covered in TODAY's RN programs. I can't speak for the ones of the past. But fact is, if you take TODAY's ADRN or diploma school grad and graft a baccalaureate nursing degree onto them, you really haven't improved the product (nurse) much, because they were appropriately trained to begin with, to do actual floor nursing.
Look at Clarion's program: http://www.clarion.edu/403620.pdf 51 credits, and 15 are geneds, 3 are statistics (and one statistics 3ct course doth not a statistician make, LOL), and I think it's time to call BS on this myth that a baccalaureate degree is needed for RN. Most diploma and ADRN programs are actually 3 years to complete, and they do, at least in Pennsylvania, have a lot of actual hands-on clinical training. That diploma school I was at also had hours and hours of lectures on nursing theory.
I am a career-changer, over age 50 now. I already have 2 college degrees, in technology and business. I state that so that you know I know what a college degree is. And what a career is, and what advanced-level work is. I lost my job due to a corporate merger. I decided to retrain as a RN, and I actually completed 1 year of diploma RN school before deciding that nursing isn't for me. I am too hard-driving and competitive for patient care. Honestly, when will nurses learn how to take up for themselves!
OU's RN to BSN is fairly priced in my opinion. I think that they should give more than 2 or 3 years. I think 10 years is a bit too much but I think 7 is fair for full-time. I figure a third would be coming from diploma programs and they may get zero GEC credits. So they would have to basically do an entire program. It's expensive though and almost unfair for someone who is close to graduating. Our education coordinator told them that she doesn't have a BSN and if they want her to get one, she'll be retired before she completes it so they are looking the other way.
1. There is more to the push for BSN's than just the Magnet certification ... than just the "feather in the cap" of VP for Nursing, etc. I am sorry some of you can't see beyond your personal situation and understand that the bigger picture for the profession.
2. Yes, there is some pain and unfairness in life -- and in the workplace. As the world moves on, new technologies are developed, new standards are set, etc. there are always those who struggle to keep up with those changes. But society can't stay stagnant because some people can't (or won't) keep up. If we did stay stagnant, we would still be living in the Stone Age.
3. There will always be some people who see change coming and prepare for it ... and other people who don't foresee changes and are unprepared for it. I vaguely remember a fable from childhood about a squirrel saving nuts for the winter and another animal not saving food for the winter and having to learn the lesson the hard way.
4. The American Nurses Association first advocated for a differentiation between ADN/Diploma prepared nurses and BSN prepared nurses back in it 1965 Social Policy Statement. Nurse caught totally by surprise by recent developments have not been paying attention to the politics and trends of their profession.
5. In some cases, the law that says employers must pay for required education may apply. But it certainly does not apply to all cases. Employers have every right to fulfill their desire for a higher educated staff through their hiring practices, transfer and promotion practices, etc. If you think it applies in YOUR case, see a lawyer. Bit***** to a bunch of nurses won't help you: only a lawyer can assist you with that legal question.
6. We have an obligation to be fair and compassionate to those nurses who find themselves struggling to keep up with the advancing educational standards of the nursing profession. I totally support programs such as tuition reimbursement, scholarships, flexible scheduling, etc. -- programs that can help nurses return to school -- not only for BSN's, but for additional degrees and certifications. But that doesn't mean that anyone who wants one should now get a "free ride." The nurse/student should expect to bear some of the burden. Higher education has always come at a cost for the individual -- and those of us who sacrificed while we were young to get our higher educations do not owe free rides to those who partied, made babies, went on vacation, bought houses, etc. while they were young instead of investing in their education and preparing to support themselves in an evolving world. If you thought evolution was going to stop once you arrived and nothing was going to change, that was a foolish misconception.
7. We all have to live with the consequences of our choices. I have a few regrets, too. But I don't blame others for my choices.
One of my best friends is in her mid-50's ... pressured to go back to school for a BSN because she is in a leadership job and is thinking of moving to another state some day ... knowing she could not get a similar job without that BSN (or maybe even an MSN) ... and fearing that there may come a day that she won't be able to keep her current position without it either. We have had many conversations about this. Sometimes, she feels angry and betrayed. But at other times, she admits that she simply never thought about her future career. To her, it was just a job. She had a husband she thought would support her forever and she never took her career too seriously. She didn't want to go back to school and her husband didn't want her to go back, either, because it would get in their way of their personal life.
As much as I care about my friend, I think she made a series of poor choices in life. Now she is having to pay the price by going back to school at this time when she really doesn't want to. I feel sorry for her: I am happy our employer is giving her some tuition reimbursement. I am happy she is getting some additional help from a scholarship fund that I have donated to. But I don't feel it is my job to pay for her entire education.
jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B
9 Articles; 4,800 Posts
Here's the thing. Say one is an ADN, Diploma, (or even *gasp* an LPN) who has worked acute care for many years successfully, rolled with the punches, did what they needed to do to get the job done--and is good at what they do, patient outcomes successful, taking all the required trainings, orienting all over the place to float when needed, the whole 9 yards.
One day, whilst going about your business of patient care, you are told that you have to obtain a BSN to do--wait for it--the exact same job you have been successfully doing for years. At great financial strain. Tuition reimbursement, while a nice benefit, does little in way of paying for this great financial strain. It is awesome to pay for certifications--which last I checked one doesn't need a BSN to obtain.
Bottom line--if a facility wants their nurses to do the exact same job for the exact same pay that last week they had "the best team ever" and this week it is "find another job if you don't get a BSN" What is the motive in that?
A couple things "Magnet Status" which is a huge feather in the cap of your DON, this "mandate" that by 2020 all nurses will have their BSN or be....I dunno, fired in droves?! Or bragging rights that all of their nurses are BSN's. Which doesn't mean a thing if you have not a clue how to take care of a patient.
More often than not, it is the nurses who have been with the facility the longest that this happens to. Every day. If you are a nurse in your late 40's and early 50's the last thing I would want to take on is a great deal of debt. That gets you absolutely nothing more than what you have today but a piece of paper on your wall, and a better sense of theory......which we all must be using currently...but we will "understand" the concept more? Seriously?
If I were young and my parents were paying my way through college (at great financial stain to them) then by all means....I'd get my masters! (Wait, 2 of my kids are doing that as we speak). But to add to an already strained budget at no other perk (you will get $5.00 an hour more as a BSN!!
If it is not broke, why are we trying to fix it?