suicide? Is this a trend with new nurses that can not cope?

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Oct 1, 2016

I am am seeing a trend. That's why I asked. Colleges are offering classes to teach hope to cope. Google it

When you make an assertion such as you have, it's on YOU to back it up with data. It's not the responsibility of the reader to research it in order to establish your credibility.

klone, MSN, RN · Oct 1, 2016

Totally agree with Nursegirl525 that the trend is among young adults of all walks of life, not unique to any particular profession. I do believe it's a result of the instant gratification mindset and "everyone gets a trophy" culture.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Oct 1, 2016

A new tend? ...not even close. It sounds like that individual had very serious issues long before becoming a nurse.

How would you know if it was or was not a trend?

Buyer beware, BSN · Oct 1, 2016

There are literally hundreds of articles on this exact subject. Here is the link to one.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/06/160628110215.htm

Broaching the subject of suicide is troubling for most people for many reasons that make human beings uncomfortable. Dealing with this issue requires a certain amount of self reflection that interferes with a younger person's delusional thinking they are going to live forever and an older person's ruminations over when non-existence will catch up to them.

I have asked a nurse I know if in her memory, over a forty year nursing career, she could remember any nurses that she knew of who committed suicide. She said no. I could not recall any nurses in my experience committing suicide either. Together we have seventy years behind the stick.

So how definitive is this anecdotal information in coming to scientific conclusions. Obviously not good enough to bet the farm. But it does make you wonder if our present methods of identifying and tabulating just who committed suicide, or not, are as valid as we'd like them to be. For instance, can we definitely say that "shot to death by cop" or "hit by the railroad tracks" or "a car" or "drowned" or the almost innumerable other medically defined causes of death are not actually suicides and should be reported as such? So how is all this relevant to us in a broader sense?

We all know that the media will report that in a person's peculiar demise there was a suspicion of suicide. But unless the motive and means can be definitively uncovered, who knows?

If you think about how many people, both young and old, with chronic and debilitating conditions who stop taking their meds or refuse to hydrate or eat, the numbers are staggering. Nurses readmit tons of the folks every day. Indeed many physicians build their practices around "measured suicide" euphemistically referred to as non-compliance.

So in a sort demented way, many of the jobs in health care depend on this status quo perpetuating itself.

As such, for want of a more exact way to detect people who may be in intrapsychic extremis which may precipitate their premature demise, I have to take statistics with a grain of salt when it comes to the true quantification of this world-wide epidemic.

My condolences to the family of this young colleague. I'm older but still not disillusioned enough to not want to believe that a kind word of understanding or "I love you" may not have made a difference.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Oct 1, 2016

She did not have coping skills period. Any new job is difficult and may have had the same result. It is really sad.

Of course, some people could have made some rude, hurtful remarks or treated her unsupportively. Kind of like here when meanmaryjane told Spouse she was going to make popcorn when Spouse was distraught about his marriage.

We might think we know when someone is trolling here or we might think a person needs professional counseling (and he or she might). But we don't know 100% for sure here on a Board.

It's usually wiser, kinder to be nice, even at the price of feeling foolish or thinking that you're being taken for a ride.

There is a nice way to tell somebody to drop dead.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Oct 1, 2016

Broaching the subject of suicide is troubling for most people for many reasons that make human beings uncomfortable. Dealing with this issue requires a certain amount of self reflection that interferes with a younger person's delusional thinking they are going to live forever and an older person's ruminations over when non-existence will catch up to them.
I have asked a nurse I know if in her memory, over a forty year nursing career, she could remember any nurses that she knew of who committed suicide. She said no. I could not recall any nurses in my experience committing suicide either. Together we have seventy years behind the stick.
So how definitive is this anecdotal information in coming to scientific conclusions. Obviously not good enough to bet the farm. But it does make you wonder if our present methods of identifying and tabulating just who committed suicide, or not, are as valid as we'd like them to be. For instance, can we definitely say that "shot to death by cop" or "hit by the railroad tracks" or "a car" or "drowned" or the almost innumerable other medically defined causes of death are not actually suicides and should be reported as such? So how is all this relevant to us in a broader sense?
We all know that the media will report that in a person's peculiar demise there was a suspicion of suicide. But unless the motive and means can be definitively uncovered, who knows?
If you think about how many people, both young and old, with chronic and debilitating conditions who stop taking their meds or refuse to hydrate or eat, the numbers are staggering. Nurses readmit tons of the folks every day. Indeed many physicians build their practices around "measured suicide" euphemistically referred to as non-compliance.
So in a sort demented way, many of the jobs in health care depend on this status quo perpetuating itself.
As such, for want of a more exact way to detect people who may be in intrapsychic extremis which may precipitate their premature demise, I have to take statistics with a grain of salt when it comes to the true quantification of this world-wide epidemic.
My condolences to the family of this young colleague. I'm older but still not disillusioned enough to not want to believe that a kind word of understanding or "I love you" may not have made a difference.

Is it suicide to decide you have been in enough pain for long enough? Or is it good sense? Seems to depend somewhat on what state you're in.

And I thank you for your last sentence.

Instead of more like this, we have some people here on AN who tell someone who seems to be in intrapsychic extremis that they think he or she is a troll, they say, quite brusquely and with no expression of concern, and with no finesse that the person should get off of AN and go get a counselor, or they're going to make popcorn and enjoy the show. I think that is very cruel. Such remarks, such approaches (the harsh brush-off) could push someone over the edge.

Even if we think we rule, let's try to be nice and not be the straw that broke anyone's back. Please.

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · Oct 1, 2016

I'm being a bit repetitive, but I have real life experience with this topic (and it was not at all related to anyone in nursing). Someone very close to me committed suicide, many years ago. This person was in a profession where it was considered a trend (there were statistics at the time, I actually knew what # he was within his profession and region that year). Maybe it wasn't nationwide news, but when it hits home, it feels like it is a trend (which may be the case with the OP). It was another stressful profession, my loved one was in.

But not all people in stressful professions succumb to suicide. I know people who have no held down any meaningful jobs and are depressed/suicidal. It's not about your job, your spouse (or lack thereof), your kids (or lack thereof) or your money (or lack thereof). Yes, these can all be stressors that contribute to feelings of hopelessness. But the thing I can't stand is when people say "I don't understand why she did it, was her life soooo bad?". Obviously to that person, it was (at least for those moments prior to the act, it felt like it).

I will agree with those who have stated it is a more common occurrence in our youth (middle, high school and college aged kids). I am a mom to a high school kid. The pressure to succeed it ridiculous, and it is not always brought on by the parents. Kids are competitive with each other and this may come from other kids parents putting pressure on them. I see what my child is capable of, and she beats herself up when she does not do as well as her peers. Not everyone can be excellent at everything. I certainly don't believe in her getting a trophy for everything she does (and she has not; she has had her fair share of rejection, but has also been rewarded for her accomplishments when others have not). There needs to be a happy medium. I am pleased that her experiences have taught her this. But sadly (as a college professor) I see many who have never failed at anything in their lives, and this often leads to a very immature response (you failed me, because I have never failed, so it must be your fault), or extreme feelings of self doubt, failure and fear of disappointing their parents. I can't tell you how many students have told me they cannot go home and tell their parents they failed. It breaks my heart to even think that my child may feel this way.

The bottom line is, being a bad nurse should not make someone feel like they are worthless. But sometimes it does. Just like a teenager who is bullied because they are gay, overweight or unattractive (subjectively) should not cause them to take their own life, but sometimes it does. It is an illness, and if the treatment plan is not optimal, there will be relapses, exacerbations and consequences.

CaptC · Oct 1, 2016

The bottom line is, being a bad nurse should not make someone feel like they are worthless. But sometimes it does. Just like a teenager who is bullied because they are gay, overweight or unattractive (subjectively) should not cause them to take their own life, but sometimes it does. It is an illness, and if the treatment plan is not optimal, there will be relapses, exacerbations and consequences.

If someone said that to me and I was a new nurse I would be very upset. People spend many years and give up many things to become a nurse. It's not as trivial as your last paragraph makes it seem. If an individual starts working and is not given the proper time to take things slow and learn from more experienced nurses, but is instead bullied and yelled at that can often make improvement significantly harder or next to impossible.

From personal experience, I can say that what makes a good job environment is co-workers you can trust. Someone you can say, "hey I need help" and not got torn apart for not knowing something. The worst job I've ever had was in a position where people felt it was super cool to tear you apart, for simply asking for help or not knowing something. The only reason I can gather for this was to show superiority in some backwards attempt at promotion, but everyone was trying to do this bs and instead of working together everyone fought each other and nothing was ever done and no one was ever promoted. I can honestly say I would rather be dead then work at that job again. If this individual felt that way about this position and felt that represented all of nursing (often the same position in a different building can have a much better internal culture) I can without question sympathise with how distraught this person would have felt. It is an extremely sad story.

Look, someone needs to show that they are dedicated to improvement in their career. However, if you allow people to get bullied in the workplace because they are "a bad nurse" or whatever the case may be, instead of simply trying to help each other then that is bad for everyone.

Generally, I think most people can get good at whatever they set their minds too. Being bad at something is a tempory stage due to lack of experience, not something inherent in a person's DNA. Workers need to cultivate a growth mindset and employers and coworkers need do the same. Compassion and empathy are the greatest tools to do this, not anger and judgement.

If I notice someone doing something wrong I simply show them the right way to do it. Kindly, and not forcefully. If someone forgets something I simply do it myself, I don't get pleasure in rubbing it in their faces.

I'm not a nurse yet, but it seems to me this is the predominating culture that many nurses live in, (not sure about MSN or CRNA's) and it is very dangerous to the profession. The moment people start believing they can do something they can and often do. The moment they stop believing they often can't and don't.

caliotter3 · Oct 1, 2016

Five individuals of a certain occupation, who worked at the place where my father worked, committed suicide. I would call that a trend. Have never heard about any new nurses doing that around my area.

AliNajaCat · Oct 1, 2016

A new grad, young nurse landed her DREAM job. Or what she thought would be her dream job in ICU. After orientation and on her own, she quit and said she thought she was dangerous and could kill a patient. The training was poor and the bullying was second to worst I have seen. That day she went home and gave up her life. Later, her parents notified the floor/ unit.
Now, obviously not every nurse under these circumstances has the same outcome. But, what can be done to change the (mean-girl- middle school) culture on floor? Who do you complain to? Who recognizes this as an issue with not just that nurse but many whom have left the floor for the same reasons?
How do you cope, who should be there to help nurses cope? Has this happened where you work?

Too many assumptions here.

1) That the ICU staffers were mean girls. Many new grads think there's bullying when they don't get unconditional affirmation for everything they do, or when a preceptor or charge nurse asks their rationale for doing something, or gives them feedback that suggests another course of action/better assessment skills/better time management would have been better.

2) That she killed herself because of work relationships, solely. Most people who suicide have long-standing many-faceted difficulties. Insecurity, overdeveloped sense of responsibility, inability to seek help or self-actualize, no other life outside work, weak ego strength... You will never know.

3) That this has to be fixed fast. The way you, as an individual, change a culture is one day, one person at a time. The next new person who orients, you explain #1 in detail. If there's really unnecessary harshness, stand beside her and say something like, "Maybe we could restate that more softly." Offer to be the preceptor for the new person, and work out with that new person how they want to hear constructive criticism, because they are going to need it as sure as the goddess made little green apples. Next year, both of you do it. This will NOT happen rapidly, or even in a few months. This is a years-long process, but once it gets better it will not g0 back.

BeenThereDoneThat74, MSN, RN · Oct 2, 2016

If someone said that to me and I was a new nurse I would be very upset. People spend many years and give up many things to become a nurse. It's not as trivial as your last paragraph makes it seem. If an individual starts working and is not given the proper time to take things slow and learn from more experienced nurses, but is instead bullied and yelled at that can often make improvement significantly harder or next to impossible.

I agree, not as trivial as my brief statement on a message board. I am the absolute last person to minimize anyone's depression.

Reread my post- I have first hand experience with this. And as many trivialized with said person, it goes way beyond your profession.

Also, I have experienced terrible preceptors and orientations in this profession (subsequently asked to resign in lieu of being let go). I reiterate, How you recover has a lot to do with coping skills. I felt absolutely worthless for a little while, until I brushed myself off and started a jos in my favorite specialty. I know, not everyone is capable of that, and my heart goes out to those people.

SmilingBluEyes · Oct 2, 2016

A trend or a horrible, unfortunate aberration? Is it ongoing? If not, Then it's probably NOT a trend.

Five individuals of a certain occupation, who worked at the place where my father worked, committed suicide. I would call that a trend. Have never heard about any new nurses doing that around my area.