Step pay effect on older nurses getting hired?

[Emergent]

I live in a part of the nation where most hospitals are unionized, with a step pay scale. It's rather extreme, with new nurses making $26 an hr, and the most years of experience making up to $45 or $46 an hr. I am currently at $40 an hr.

I've applied to a few Per Diem jobs with no response. I have a lot of varied experience. I'm worried that my years of experience may be interfering with my ability to change facilities down the road. After all, why should someone hire me when they can get a younger nurse with solid experience for much less? In this tighter job market, I think it may be hurting older nurses.

I remember, at my previous hospital, when the union fought to make sure incoming nurses were given credit on the wage scale for all their years of experience. Prior to that, HR would make an offer at a certain step, take it or leave it.

Now I'm feeling a little trapped, unless the job market improves. I'd happily take a lower pay for a job I might prefer, but I think a lot of these facilities now have their arms tied.

[mhy12784]

I think this is a gross generalization and very ageist. EMR and other technologies can be learned by anyone and if as a manager I had to choose between a younger (less expensive) nurse with great tech chops and a nurse with 20-30 years experience with superior clinical decision-making skills, guess which one I would choose? EMR is not and should not be the hill to die on with respect to hiring/managing qualified nurses.

I never said older nurses cannot learn EMR and technology. Nor that all older nurses are bad with technology.

Simply that younger generations who grew up and use technology everyday of their entire lives are more far more likely to be more proficient with it than people who grew up without it even existing.

I have to hear older nurses complain about EMR everyday.

And how great it was when they could just use paper charting and orders.

Its not being mean by acknowliding the differences/strengths/advantages of different generations.

Ill also point out that this opinion is also in nursing text books.

That younger generations are more technologically adept.

And I certainly didnt say that EMR should be the sole decision when hiring

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Somehow nurses managed to do their jobs and they were proficient long before technology arrived. The essence of nursing and the use of the nursing process has not changed.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

but do u no whippersnapper shorthand esme? u dont need annoying punctuation or wasteful capitals. u dont need to bother with even checking spellcheck cause people will get ur meaning so why bother?

Actually I do...I have teenagers...I txt thm 2 dump th trsh and do th dishs

[brandy1017, ASN, RN]

I never said older nurses cannot learn EMR and technology. Nor that all older nurses are bad with technology.

Simply that younger generations who grew up and use technology everyday of their entire lives are more far more likely to be more proficient with it than people who grew up without it even existing.

I have to hear older nurses complain about EMR everyday.

And how great it was when they could just use paper charting and orders.

Its not being mean by acknowliding the differences/strengths/advantages of different generations.

Ill also point out that this opinion is also in nursing text books.

That younger generations are more technologically adept.

And I certainly didnt say that EMR should be the sole decision when hiring

It was better before the computers! It was faster and easier! The computers are time consuming and a hassle. The only positive thing I can say about computerized med pass is that it makes the process safer and that is the reason it was started! Safety takes more time, all the forms we have to fill out for safety take time and can be a hassle. Perhaps it's a necessary evil, but things should be streamlined as much as possible.

We have alarms on everything for safety, but the constant sounds of the alarms are jarring on the senses and can cause hypertension and what is most frustrating is how many times the alarms are ringing for no real reason, artifact. Then people start to tune out the alarms, if they can, because of all the false alarms!

PS I took shorthand too like Esme. I think I was at 120 words a minute, but never actually used it at any secretarial job, though my boss was impressed to have a secretary with shorthand. But even back then they used the dictaphone instead. I took secretarial classes to have classes with my friend, but then she turned around and dropped out of the classes and left me in the lurch. Anyway I stayed with it and it did provide me employment before I became a nurse,problem is it doesn't pay a living wage! I wanted more out of life and to be able to travel and own a home, hard to do on secretaries wages! I doubled my income with my first nursing job, though didn't feel rich because of my student loan payments. Many times I wondered if it was worth it when I had to write the monthly check to the student loan company!

[featherzRN, MSN]

ROFL.. I was a software engineer for 10+ years and was using a computer in the late 70's. I'm also the superuser and defacto IT person at my current job - and I'm close to the oldest person there (mid 40's). I even fix hardware problems if I can get into the PC's. I spend most of my off hours playing online computer games either on my PC or my Xbox. Not all of us older types are yelling "get off my lawn". You name the EMR, I can use it.

(And I have a BSN as well)..

[Ruas61, BSN, RN]

I am one of the old ones. My college had us using computers on the get go. I could pull labs and orders in 1987 in a small town hospital that had state of the art stuff for its time.

I watch the newer nurses have issues with structuring their tasks because the computer doesn't lend itself easily to that. Sometimes a checklist on paper or a tickler beasts IT hands down.

It becomes asinine to paint a broad stroke for any generation.

[nursel56]

And im definitely not saying a hospital should be hiring a fresh 21 year old right out of nursing school instead of a 60 year old nurse.

Its likely more ideal to get those nurses who have 5-10 years of experience and are probably just past their child bearing years (which isnt me)

They give you a blend of both worlds.

Your posts make me think of the classic Mark Twain quote: It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so. Your comment above is full of assumptions and generalizations. To start with I don't think "Pregnant Man" is a trend we'll be seeing a lot of . . .

On the technology topic . . .even if one were to accept your generalizations about older nurses and technology (apparently based on what you've observed in one place for a short time), younger people will always be confronted with new technology on a continual basis, irrespective of artificial compartmentalized "generations". An ossification of attitudes toward new things is a personality trait more than anything. My grandma grew up with a big ol' cabinet radio but she was all over that Zenith Space Command TV when it first came out.

It is possible you are revealing a lack of flexible thinking by assuming that electronic is always more efficient than paper. Well, it isn't. It isn't my old fossilized brain that tells me that. It's evidence in my own practice.

[mmc51264, BSN, MSN, RN]

I am 50 and a relatively new nurse. I learned the old EMR system and then 6 months into my job I had to learn Epic (our version) I am a super user and I can do an admission, discharge, notes, and charting faster than many that I work with.

I am a victim of the step system in teaching in one state that had a union (wouldn't hire a first year teacher w/a masters) and then in a second, non-union state (non-tenured teacher with a masters).

[classicdame, MSN, EdD]

shows how unions can work against you not for you in all situations

[HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD]

Fascinating thread - but I ran out of popcorn, so I'll chime in now.

Back to the original thesis - railing against union-imposed salary structures. This is one of the most frequently used (and most popular) anti-union positions in my (very anti organized labor) state.... not just in nursing. Any culture (ethnic, corporate, professional, etc) that is big on individual merit and accountability will place greater emphasis on ability than tenure. This is also a phenomenon that distinguishes capitalism from other types of social structures.

As an educator, I know for a fact that experience DOES NOT automatically equate to expertise. While I do hope that most of us learn from our experiences, some people simply repeat "year one" over and over again. I firmly believe that each individual's salary should be tied to the value that they produce (yeah, old and unremorseful hippie here).

So, in my world, salary structures would be directly tied to skills, knowledge and ability applied in the work setting. The health care industry is in a financial tailspin - why in the world would we continue to base salary levels on the ability to "tough it out" and stay in your job? Automatic raises simply based on years of experience are a de-motivator in terms of productivity... after all, why bother if I get a raise no matter what? Seems like a system guaranteed to produce slackers... you know, those people who retired years ago but just keep on coming to work - LOL.

[FlyingScot, RN]

So, in my world, salary structures would be directly tied to skills, knowledge and ability applied in the work setting. The health care industry is in a financial tailspin - why in the world would we continue to base salary levels on the ability to "tough it out" and stay in your job? Automatic raises simply based on years of experience are a de-motivator in terms of productivity... after all, why bother if I get a raise no matter what? Seems like a system guaranteed to produce slackers... you know, those people who retired years ago but just keep on coming to work - LOL.

Having worked in both sectors (currently in a unionized facility) I have to say I enjoy the fact that I can expect a raise for "sticking it out" as well as for my skill and expertise rather than being screwed out of any raise at all by a manager that simply does not like me personally. Maybe that's because we don't work under the fear of being fired for the most minor of infractions and consequently are more content with our jobs. Frankly, I saw more slackers when I worked in the private sector than in my current job and they always seemed to be in the back pocket of the manager. And guess who got the highest raises? The ones who did the least but were besties with management. AT least the playing field is level where I am now.

[FlyingScot, RN]

Oh, and I completely agree with Esme on the EMR thing. The younger generation has NO IDEA what early EMR's were like and yet we managed to function. DOS was the spawn of Satan. EMR's today are child's play in comparison. It's laughable to just assume becasue someone is older that they cannot handle technology. My 77 year old mother could likely run circles around most of the younger generation because she has a natural affinity for things high tech. I am my unit's super user and de-facto IT person even though I'm...gasp...nearly 50! I didn't even own my own computer until a few years ago! What I've found isn't so much that our older nurses can't handle the technology. They're mostly afraid of breaking the computer!!! So I tell them to hit any key or combination and see what happens. The worst thing is the computer freezes and you have to re-boot it. Once they see that they aren't going to damage anything then they are more willing to explore and learn on their own which is the only way to really get comfortable with EMR systems.