Stealing drugs!! what's your opinion?????

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2003

Lemonhead, thanks for sharing.

My only hope is that your safe and drug free, for the patients sake. Sounds like you're doing well.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2003

Bab's my question to you is, and it's probably semantics. But do you still feel you're addicted to stadol? What would happen if you took stadol? Theoretically speaking?

vwgirl · Dec 3, 2003

This whole thread has been of great interest to me; I am a recovering addict with almost nine years clean. I used all throughout nursing school; the only thing that was able to save my junkie behind was getting pregnant with my son. I truly believe God sent him to save my life. It took my five years of going in and out of NA to get one year clean. Today, I am a good nurse, and a good person. I was able to not only stop using drugs, but to change myself back into the decent, kind person I was before it all began. NA saved my life. But I definitely subscribe to the theory that we, as addicts, differ in degrees of sickness, and all need our roads to wellness individualized. I am not opposed to Rational Recovery; it just is not for me.

Lemonhead · Dec 3, 2003

Originally posted by chris_at_lucas
[
If you have issues that need dealing with, and don't want to use a 12 step program (which is about the best therapy going, if you "qualify" for it), then see a therapist. But to use it to justify dangerous, immoral, illegal behavior is a symptom of a DISEASE--it's progressive, and it's fatal.
Thanks for this thread. [/b]

I don't think we are in any way "justifying" our behaviour...I know what I did was completely wrong and I know there could have been come catastrophic circumstances--both from the care I gave to patients, to caring for my own young children "under the influence"...I would not deny that I was unsafe and dangerous. I would not deny that I needed to be out of the environment. And I really don't see anyone else "justifying" our actions. I was a thief and a drug abuser--I have no problem admitting that...key word...WAS....

when you classify all of "us" into the "disease" theory, you are doing exactly what we are trying to emphasize is dangerous--we do not do it to cancer patients, we shouldn't do it to people with drug and alcohol problems--we are not ALL diseased--just because someone does something "dangerous, immoral and illegal" does not necessarily make them diseased--if that were the case, every criminal could use a "disease" as an excuse for committing crime. On the contrary--in some cases, that is exactly what the 12 steps teaches--"the disease made ya do it....." Your whole topsy turvy life can be blamed on the "disease"--and taking the blame away from behaviour--in my opinion, that's far more "justification" than I think I've posted. I didn't do it because I was diseased--I did it because I was an idiot. Is everyone that uses doing it because they are "idiots"..no way--some people cannot stop it, some people are truly mentally ill and some people just can't NOT live without using--that wasn't the case with me--I had no "reason" to use--my life was okay--I used because it was a good buzz and a good sleep--and I was an idiot..pure and simple...a clueless, self centered and ignorant idiot--again, I will say, I feel so sorry for those that are truly, deeply sick and dying as a result of alcoholism and addiction--many of them fall through the cracks because of the close minded treatment industry. And for those that get help via the 12 steps, I'm happy for them--wether we agree or disagree with different programs, I don't think any of us want to see someone suffer for a lifetime with this condition--

And it's a myth that the 12 steps is the most effective method.

I have no doubt that I could return to patient care and be a safe nurse--I also know that I would be an amazingly humble nurse--something that I really needed to be shown. I would be a 100% better nurse than I was before, because my priorities, opinions and behaviour has taken a 360 degree turn. However, I probably will not return to nursing--for one, I may not have a license for a very long time, second, I'll be on a national healthcare black list and thirdly, I am so disillusioned with our profession and disgusted with our regulating agencies...not so sure I want to work under folks like that again in this lifetime...

I sense an uneasiness in some of the responses regarding my stance--I can only say--prior to being so deeply involved in this stuff myself, I carried alot of the same opinions..based on what little I had learned regarding addiction/alcoholism, but, when you "become one" it forces a person to look at this "industry" in a whole different light...and by the grace of God, survive it!

Thanks all! Lemon

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2003

Originally posted by Lemonhead
--just because someone does something "dangerous, immoral and illegal" does not necessarily make them diseased

No, that makes them a criminal. Having an addiction, or in your case an abuse problem isn't the criminal part. And the criminal part isn't part of the disease. I guess I'm separating the physical addiction from the act of using.

I disagree that you abused drugs because you were stupid. You lived that long, you got married, had kids, went to college, suddenly you become stupid? No, something happened to you physically when you started using, it changed your body, your body made your abuse, it caused you to behave in ways you never would ordinarily behave. Again, I'm just talking out loud, we just have to agree to disagree. I know it's your life, your experience, you've spent countless hours coming to your conclusions and I read every word.

Also, the 12-steps include some soul searching and some restitution for behaviors. It just doesn't say "it's a disease". It goes way beyond that. It's about changing old behaviors, and making things right with the world. But you know that. The big problem I have with the 12-steps is not that they say it's a disease, but that they lean towards it being a moral disease. That if you take a moral inventory and get right with God, then you can get a daily reprieve from the disease.

I think it's not a moral issue or stupidity. But that's just me. Doesn't mean one should pay for his crimes, doesn't mean one can say "I have a disease" and not take responsibility for one's actions and behavior. Anyway, I'll hush now. :)

CCU NRS · Dec 3, 2003

I continue to hear you deny having a disease, you admit that you were addicted but that it was just ignorance and being an idiot. Addiction/Dependancy is a diagnosis therefore by proxy a disease whether you were a first time you used completely addicted personality or an idiot (your word) you did succumb to the addiction which you were then diagnosed with and recieved treatment for. These are the S/S of disease, discovering the problem, understanding the problem, treating the problem.

If it is cancer or addiction there is a process which once began identifies this as a disease process.

bail · Dec 3, 2003

Lemonhead...........I read your recent post with much interest. I agree with you that there is a difference between "abuse" and "addiction". Has anyone out there with a prescription med for pain, ever taken a little MORE than prescribed a time or two? That is abuse, not necessairly addiction.

Up date on our investigation..................I was interviewed yesterdy by our CEO , DON, HR, and Nurse Manager. I was first up. They were serious and blundt. They asked me questions, like:

"have you ever taken more of your prescribed pain med than prescirbed?" "have you ever taken narcs from our supply for your own personal use?" "have you ever diverted narcs from our supply for your own personal use?" "do you have a prolem with drugs?" etc...........I know they have the results of our drug screens, but they didn't offer the results, and I didn't ask. If I'm positive, it's because of my prescription meds. One question I was asked was: "are your prescription medications the same as or similar to those kept in our narcotic supply?" And, yes, they are. I am aware of the implication here. Anyway, after me, they interviewed another nurse, and I am guessing that will continue today. They said they have to do their own investigation and then the dea does one, or something like that. Exactly what kind of proof do they need??? If they thought one or more of us were impaired, would they not dismiss us immmediately??

LilgirlRN, ADN, RN · Dec 3, 2003

My personal opinion on the disease thing is this... a lot of what keeps an addict in addiction is the guilt and shame over being an addict and the behaviors (stealing, lying etc.) involved. They continue to use to kill that pain. If someone tells you that you have a disease and that's why you used and did all the bad things you did then it's easier to forgive yourself. You don't have to take responsibility, you can blame your terrible behavior on the disease. However, to me it also gives an addict an exscuse to keep using. You can always say, I can't help it, I have a disease. I commend Lemon and Babs for standing up and admitting their guilt and taking responsibility for their own lives and ending their "disease".

iliel · Dec 3, 2003

Just wanted to say that I appreciate all the honest stories.

I also just wanted to say, when you are an addict you are not the same person you where when you where sober. Plain and simple. You know it's wrong, but you don't care and some times it's a relief to get caught especially when ppl think you can do no wrong.

I wouldn't wish addiction on my worst enemy.

Lemonhead · Dec 3, 2003

Like I said, I'm not diseased. I had a behaviour disorder--sure, I had physical response, I don't deny that--I had a nice, warm and fuzzy buzz--I liked the buzz--and, as a result of liking that buzz and not focusing on consequences, I went for more buzz--as in, I behaved carelessly and without thought to consequences--I wasn't so out of control that I couldn't stop when I took the time to look at my behaviour and realize if I didn't cool it, I was going to get busted--I could go a couple of weeks, more, without--and then when I thought nobody "noticed", I chose to start it up again--not disease, behaviour flaw--and an idiot--I was an idiot and believe me, I would much rather call myself an idiot, than forever diseased--and again, alot of criminals do things for a "natural high"...purse snatching, home invasions, burglaries..doesn't make them diseased, and they get off on it--it's behaviour--either they don't know how to behave--as in upbringing, or they don't care. I emphatically deny that I have a "disease"...I had a disease once, cancer, this is NOT a disease--I was punished, I learned and don't care to ever go back there again....and that point is actually well exhibited in the statement about me having a family, going to college, etc.---because if you want to believe in the "disease" theory for all, then you have to believe we are basically "born" with the genes and it's just a "disease" waiting to blossom--I don't buy it--

A disease didn't make me snap--being careless, rationilizing and denying consequences, did--and that is a behaviour problem. I liked the buzz, but NO buzz is worth the consequences the I have paid and I have exposed young children to. Nor, is this drug something I will spend a life being terrified of--did it, it's done...I don't dwell on it, I don't desire it and certainly would not ever want to "go there" again....so, I won't. That's just how it is for me---I know others struggle and do have to live "one day at a time"...I don't...I can see a future without fear of drugs or alcohol...isn't that we should want people to feel?

LilgirlRN, ADN, RN · Dec 3, 2003

One would think that given the right set of circumstances that anyone could become and addict. However, you see people who were abused as children and have incredibly hard lives and they never use. I think it would be more correct to say that given the right set of circumstances could make anyone abuse drugs. I believe it's all brain thing, all brain chemistry. I do believe that others were right in saying that there is a distinct difference in an addict and someone who abuses. I also believe that there are 2 kinds of addicts, social addicts and people who have psych problems who become addicts. I think social addicts get caught up in drinking/using with their friends and they have a physical addiction as well as one of loving being high with their friends. I don't know which one would be harder to stop. The one that uses for pleasure or the one who uses to escape pain. Some would argue that there is no difference in that statement, that they both use for the same thing, pleasure. I can see both sides of that argument. I believe that it's the human condition to be addicted to something. We all have something we are addicted to. I'm a Mountain Dew addict. Others are addicted to orderliness etc, etc.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Dec 3, 2003

Lemonhead, I don't think people should live in fear. But don't you have just a little fear that you are going to be an idiot one day under stress or just being plain stupid and use again?

I thinking having a healthy fear of relapse is important. One should never forget. But I do know that recovering people in 12 steps don't live in the type of fear you describe.

Yes, I do buy into the idea that it's something you are born with. I take a medicine I don't get a buzz, I don't feel good, I don't feel the need to repeat and abuse the medicine. In fact I can't stand being buzzed or chemically altered. I don't have the physical and emotional response you did. Yes, much of the behavior is stupid. To smoke crack is stupid, to shoot up heroin is stupid. But the process of becoming addicted isn't. The physical response and pleasure you had in getting buzz is that a behavior problem? That's what I'm saying. Anyway, we are polar opposite here and that's o.k. It worked for you and that's what's important.