Stealing drugs!! what's your opinion?????

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I was just talking to a woman I work with about this today. But it seems like we are always hearing about nurses that are stealing narcotics from hospitals or other facilities. It has happened twice this year at a hospital where I work which is a pretty good size hospital with a level 3 trauma center. Anyhow my question is with as controlled and counted as these drugs stay, how on earth can anyone possibly think they "might" get away with this?!?!? I mean, I understand some people get really desperate but that is just asking to have your nursing license taken away. What's your thought on the subject????

In my eleven years of nursing I've heard of three nurses who've diverted narcs and been caught. One was an ED nurse who diverted IV morphine (worked in a level 1 trauma center in Detroit); a CVICU nurse diverting IV morphine (those who knew her said she had a big attitude change after visiting the restroom); an ED nurse busted by police for selling Percocets. Then I was told the story (I don't know if it's true or not) of a nursing tech who took an unlabeled syringe out of the ICU thinking it was morphine and was later found dead in a restroom after he had injected himself with Norcuron! I agree with Tweety that diverting narcs is easy to do. As professionals we are given great responsibility. If a fellow nurse is impaired it is our duty to speak up. By getting an impaired nurse help we preserve patient care and hopefully save a colleague from ruin.

Well, my thoughts on the fibbers and truthers (that's cute, Big Babs--) now, some of my pals will call me crazy, but....I think the only way to REALLY know if someone is continuing or actively using is via drug testing....and what's really crazy, is we (in Ohio) were only tested monthly--sometimes every other...now, in my case, the counseling center also tested me weekly at my request..so, I would have proof that I was staying "clean" ...ironically, when I got in to the criminal end--I was charged in August and have been drug tested ONCE!!!....so, I don't see a real effort for these agencies to "really" focus on the fibbers because they've lumped us all together--it would take a lot more money to separate us in to groups and provide adequate help and resources based on our needs--I don't see it ever happening....it would be very easy to lie and get away with continued use...so, absolutely, they HAVE to keep using nurses out of patient care, but for us "non users" they are giving us no credit for staying "clean"--and if they tested more often, there would be verification--so, how to tell the liars from the honest ones...test more often...I could almost predict when my "random" testing would be done--it was always around the same time of the month---I could have been drunk or high at least 2 weeks out of the month if I wanted to be....I've had well over 100 clean urines in a 4 year period, so, do you think they would look at me as being honest? They don't--I'm still being told I'm "high risk"...because I was late turning in paperwork and because I questioned the board about several breaches in my contract...that's not "good recovery" because "recovery" is all about "acceptance" and not "fighting"....bottom line--it's a game and if you play it right, you'll make it--if you question the authority, you won't...it's money and it's political and in the meantime, it's a lot of nurses working unsafely, or nurses being thrown out of the profession--in my opinion, it has very little to do with truth and more to do with politics...just another conspiracy theory of mine..lol. But seriously--you can go to the Ohio website and see nurses pissing cocaine and still on stayed suspensions (as in, they are allowed to work) there are nurses that had positive preemployment urines for alcohol, pot, cocaine, etc, that continue to work---even a couple that ADMITTED to drinking on the job--with stayed suspensions and continuing to work....there is no rhyme or reason and if these nurses are getting away with it, why shouldn't they lie? I often wonder why I was honest....I woulda been alot better off if I had lied through my teeth....in other words--until these boards get it together and maintain some type of consistency, this is not going to change and it will be impossible to separate the "fibbers and truthers"...it's not always about telling the truth--it's about how well a person, that wants to continue using, can play the game....and the boards, without flat out saying it, support it by not testing more often and paying attention to the clues....

[Then I was told the story (I don't know if it's true or not) of a nursing tech who took an unlabeled syringe out of the ICU thinking it was morphine and was later found dead in a restroom after he had injected himself with Norcuron! TE]

Something similar like that happened in Cleveland to a med student...they weren't sure if she realized what she had actually used, but it was Fentanyl...found her dead in the break room--

This may sound really crazy to nonusers..but, for some of us...we "knew" exactly the max we could take at a time--like a strange kind of comfort zone...and some of us stuck with just one or two meds--I personally, only used one and was "scared" of anything else...I knew what "mine" would do and what effect it would cause...like I said, I know it sounds crazy, but it's true---and I was scared to death of ANYTHING that could be used in an OR...I had heard too many stories of nurses being found unconscious with a pocket or sock full of syringes...amazing how we can think enough to "protect" our habit, but not enough to stop it! Another part of rationilizing I guess...

Specializes in Med-Surg.

The stories of nurse and doctor addicts will make your skin crawl I'm sure.

This year we had a nurse anestesist collapse and respiratory rest during a surgery seems he gave himself an overdose of fentanyl. The buzz is, and it's only a buzz, meaning gossip is he says is not a drug addict, but an abuser. He's back to practicing and it hasn't even been a year. Yet, I knew a floor nurse that diverted percocet for his own use due to untreated back pain, and he couldn't pass narcs for over a year.

So there's no rhyme or reason here either. But then again, I don't know what goes on behind closed doors, in the counseling sessions, in the evals. Perhaps someone deemed the anestesist safe to work and the percocet user not.

It does seem that when you question the process you are labeled "in denial". My friend the addiction counseler says most participants are very angry that first year and it's hard to distinguish what's really going on with the person. Especially the ones "yeah I stole morphine, but I'm not a drug addict".

I too, have enjoyed reading everyone's opinions on this topic. I never stole drugs from work in my active addiction because I was too scared; I am not a very good liar, and probably not a very good theif, either. I have to admit that I am kind of bummed to see people down on NA; I wholeheartedly understand that it is not for everyone, and I also believe everyone who uses drugs is not an addict; my husband got high right along with me, but he stopped one day and just never picked up again, and does not miss it at all. Me, if I could get high without the adverse consequences, I'd still be getting high. But the consequences kicked my ass. I credit NA and a wonderful shrink with saving my life (and of course, God, who never stopped paying attention to me, just the other way around.) I will probably get slammed for saying this, but how can you not be an addict if you are willing to do something that is going to jepoardize your career, family's well-being ,etc? I care for women who have used drugs while pregnant, but they say they are not addicts. My response is: "Normal" people do not use drugs while pregnant. They stop for the time they are pregnant, and then start again when the baby is delivered and done breastfeeding. But the bottom line is that we need all the good nurses we can get, and I wish the powers that be cut the nurses with drug problems as big a break as they do the doctors with drug problems. Last time I checked there was no "physician shortage." Peace.

I will probably get slammed for saying this, but how can you not be an addict if you are willing to do something that is going to jepoardize your career, family's well-being ,etc?

For me, and I'm sure that Lemonhead would say about the same, I can say that I honestly had NO IDEA what the consequences could be....(I knew taking too much was wrong, but had NO idea where it would lead), I had no previous experiences to go by, and as for nursing school, well all they did was acknowledge the existance of "impaired" nurses, nothing more.....this is one of My big issues with nursing in general, we are ALL very ignorant to what happens in these situations until we're in the middle of it and then its too late......Unless we or a friend or family member go thru it, we are not really exposed to it, honestly I kinda feel like it "nursings dirty little secret"....although I think it is becoming more known to the public, and I'm truly not sure if that's a good or bad??......Anyway, just my thoughts...Thanks for listening!!

I am so grateful to see that I am not alone... I, too, have always been Miss Type-A Overachiever Teacher's Pet Top of the Class Most Likely to Succeed Never Touched a Drug in My Life. And all it took was once. For me -- Demerol. Now why in Hell I picked up that first syringe, I have no idea. Nor the second. Etc. Etc.

Texas has a support program -- and I may or may not be able to continue in it since I have just relapsed after six months. So at the very least, I will likely be taking a break from nursing for a little while. And when I return, I will likely be looking for a non-narcotic-passing position -- and yes, there are a lot of them: OR Circulator, Educator, Administrator, Medical Sales, Insurance, Consultant...

My biggest piece of advice: GET HELP BEFORE YOU GET BUSTED. Volunteer. Take a leave of absence. If you volunteer for a program and get what you need, you have some control over your life and your recovery. If you are remanded to that same program, you are subjected to ALL aspects of that program. This may include aspects that have absolutely nothing to do with your situation. For instance, not EVERYONE has a need to see a psychiatrist on a frequent and regular basis. And do you really need to go to a minimum of 4 AA/NA meetings a week for two whole years?? And what if your problem is drugs but there are no NA meetings in your area, but you have to get signatures showing attendance so you go to AA instead -- and not all AA groups are friendly to people who don't have an alcohol problem.

Anyway, the problem is there, and it is very real, and very prevelent, and people do not know how common it is. Not just with diverting, but how many of us are friendly with MDs and grab one in the hall asking for an Rx? Legitimately prescribed drugs are just as much of a problem as diversion -- in fact, probably more so, because it seems easier to rationalize it. "I only take my meds at home off shift." Really? Did you know that all but alcohol stay in your system for 1-3 days minimum? So even if you don't 'feel' it, you are technically working 'under the influence' and can be caught, seemingly rather innocently, in a random drug screen -- the screen has no idea when the drug was taken. And depending on where you work, they may let it slide because it was prescribed, or because they like you, or they may fire you on the spot with a -0- tolerence policy.

But I digress... bottom line is, as professionals I agree it is very important that we get help. It's also very case-by-case. You can have a crappy nurse who diverts, rehabs, diverts, rehabs, diverts...etc. Does that nurse deserve all those extra chances? Or you can have a great nurse who discovered and fed an addiction, unable to break it without help. Should that nurse, a leader in his/her field, be permanently barred from the profession? I think not. Some people can handle it, others can not. Me, I want to be a nurse, and I believe I am a very good nurse, but I also believe I will better serve my patients and colleagues as a nurse in a position that does NOT pass narcotics.

AMEN GOT7BUNNIES....You said it all and I agree with you totally--My problem at the time, was I didn't figure I could get help without being reported to the Board--I figured if I got caught on the job, they would just reprimand/possibly terminate me and that would be the end of that--yet, I thought if I went publicly and asked for help, I would be reported--crazy thinking, but an example of my moronic thinking.

On that thought though, it's a fine line because rehab centers are allowed to release info to licensing boards--I've tried to find out if they only report it UPON request, or report it regardless...I've written several people without replies yet--but I ABSOLUTELY believe we should have just as much right to anonymity and confidentiality as the next guy if we voluntarily seek help...

Hi VWGirl, I just wanted to explain my issues with AA/NA since you mentioned about the negative postings about them...my biggest concern is that these meetings are not monitored in any way at all...it sounds like you fell in to some good groups and got some good help and I really can appreciate that...

Some of the groups are pure hell, because they aren't monitored. I live in a rural area...just picture small town, country livin' to get the idea. The meetings were mostly men, rough crowd, and the few women were pretty rough themselves..there were NO professionals--none. Or even the "housewife" type...anyhow, my 3 years in AA/NA was pure hell...sexual harrassment, isolation from my family, "medical advice" by laypeople, complete abomination of my personal beliefs, etc...I could go on and on with countless examples, but the key is, nobody should be forced to that environment, by a state agency, that is not actively monitoring them..and nobody is...because they are "anonymous"...any group/environment can be unsafe when not monitored. I was being sexually harrased by several of the men--very uncomfortably (and I'm not a weenie, I can hold my own), but these guys were gross--I told my board caseworker that I was having a hard time relating to these people because all the men wanted to tell me about was how big their *&^% were....I apologize for being crude, but this is how it was for me---they even asked questions about my anatomy after having so many kids....in a group, in front of everybody...

When I complained, my caseworker told me that I was in denial, had better learn to relate to these folks because they were the ONLY ones that could help me "recover"...3 years of that...mandated by my own state board...so, that's just one of the reasons I am personally very down on 12 step meetings...if they work for someone else, more power to them, but it MUST stop being mandated, or they need to put a monitoring program for the meetings in place. I believe the state has every right to mandate I stay "clean" , but I don't think they should have a right to force me to participate in something that is against my own religious beliefs, something that is not monitored and something that could be very unsafe, both emotionally and physically.

I'm glad that it worked for you and I think you are a really fortunate person to find the meetings that got you through the rough waters--and I also notice that you are open minded enough to see that it doesn't work for everyone, unfortunately, our Boards, with their "well educated" members don't see it that way....

Specializes in ED staff.

The other hospital I used to work in was where I met Chris. He came in several times a month with back pain and got a shot of whatever, some kinda narcotic. He was a big man, football player, macho. I didn't realize who he was because he was about 15 years younger than I am. His sister and my brother had dated in high school, his parents and mine knew each other. We talked a bit and realized we kinda knew each other. With his permission I mentioned taking care of him to my brother who told me how bad a drug habit he had. He was making the rounds of every hospital in Alabama just about, he had a whole schedule worked out of which hospital he could go to without causing too much suspiscion. Suddenly he stopped coming in, he'd gone to rehab...again. It was going to work this time, he'd been in the hospital for weeks and then did the out patient program for weeks more and then on to a half-way house. He was concerned however because he had been to rehab before and the 12 step method had not worked for him before, but like they told him in the hospital it was the ONLY thing that could save him. Chris is dead, I can't help but believe if he had been told there were other ways he might have been ok.

Here is a scenario that bothers me.

I was working with a nurse that I suspected was using street drugs probably crank (methamphetamine)this nurse was always going ninety to nothing and couldn't even sit still for report just wanted to come in and stand across the counter from the nurse giving report and fidget, talking so fast you could barely understand and always just tweeking. I have had my share of experiences with tweekers and know when I am seeing it in the flesh.

Here is the dilema what do you do? I mean can you just go and tell your supervisor your suspicions? What proof is there? I mean maybe this person is just really hyper(not bloody likely)! But here is this problem and this person that is going to be giving care in the facility you call home and possibly (probably) putting Pts at risk.

This person called in frequently and was always late with lame excuses and always went to the garage and to the car for breaks and lunch on the pretense of smoking cigarettes.

UPDATE

This person was suspected by several people. One night this person came to work and was acting just crazy, in fact that was the problem it seemed like an act! Things escalated and security was called and this nurse was taken off the unit and relieved of duty and asked to give a urine sample. You guessed it NEGATIVE so now the problem is this nurse has been suspected of drug use and tested clean so this should put the issue to rest, but the behavior doesn't change. After a few more call ins and more showing up in this condition more things occur and testing requested again, NEGATIVE!

Then this nurse quit and is suing for harrassment!

My problem is as a fellow nurse I can't in good conscious let someone I beleive is impaired perform care but in this situation I could not actually prevent it either. I suggested to some of my fellow nurses that we just take this person aside and do a sort of intervention and no one else was willing to broach this subject. I asked if they were comfortable with letting this nurse take care of OUR Pts and they all said there was nothing they could do. I disagree! I believe there was something we could do, If as a group we took this person aside and explained that it is you life but they are OUR Pts and we can't allow you to endanger the lives of OUR Pts and just as a person to person situation offer help or guidance or an ultimatum, if your behavior persists and enough of us report our suspicions to the BON you will fall under scrutiny. I had no back up and so the situation played out as is. Now this nurse will probably get a big fat settlement and stay high till the money runs out and then pull this stunt on another facility.

OPINIONS PLEASE

Specializes in ED staff.

Maybe he was doing something that just didn't show up in the screen. Perhaps GHB?

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