Can we start with grammer, speling, and punctiation?
I am amazed at the number of postings in here that assault the written English language. I am not referring to perfection, Lord knows I make plenty of mistakes myself. I am definitely not referring to those who's first language is not English. I am speaking to the outright ignoring of the basics.
It doesn't take but a second to capitalize your "I's." Really it doesn't.
Perhaps I am just old, cranky, and out of touch with the texting generation.
But when i c posts with run on sentencis multiple mispels lack of punctuation like apostophes in conjuctions im wonderin if u r able 2 c what im saying lol i mean. omg. we look like illiterit.
:)
P.S. to Grammar Nazis here, yes the wored "conjunction' was on purpos.
your comment about childish actions rather reminds me of the old adage "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones." by the way, my name is ruby vee, not "ruby bee." i would also make the point that mangling someone's name is highly disrespectful.
i used my phone to respond to you. it automatically corrected the vee part of your name. i had no issue with you and will not start now.
This is an interesting topic that seems to have stirred quite a bit of emotion as well! I have to review patient charts, including progress notes every day from a variety of discliplines (Doctors, Nurses, Therapists, Dieticians, Social Workers etc). Whenever there is a problem, or potential problem with a patient...such as an injury or potential lawsuit, I have to go into an even higher gear and dig deeper into every aspect of a patient's chart.
The unfortunate fact of life is that many of the notes I see from nurses is reflected in the writing on this message board. The same type of sloppy writing, misspelling, incorrect word use and an apparent lack of caring about exactly what is written in patient records. I don't even want to think about the grammar!! It appears in all age levels, nursing levels and education levels. But it is most common in younger/newer nurses. And as I previously stated, I review all clinical disciplines, so I can say that NURSES are main offenders (95%).
Whether it's a popular view or not, the truth is when charts are being reviewed for a legal case, if a note looks unprofessional and sloppy, it certainly looks as if the patient did not receive good care. You may be the best nurse in the world but a lawyer can make you look incompetent if your documentation is full of misspellings, poor grammar and incorrect words. That is a fact of life.
Should you live your life worried about that? Of course not until that one time you do get named in a lawsuit. And you NEVER know when that will be, so always write like a professional. And it is not "eating our young" to encourage them to write professionally and not use slang or text-speak language in their everyday interactions. It's not appropriate and it IS costing them employment opportunities. I also get to look at resumes, applications and cover letters! How will they know it's not appropriate in an professional setting if they are not being told? Isn't that what a mentor is supposed to do? I love mentoring new nurses! Suggesting ways to improve is just as important as all the positive feedback. I know that nurses are not called for interviews when their initial contact with the facility is full of words that are not used properly, not spelled properly and the grammar is horrible. I feel sorry for the nurse who sends it and angry at the nursing school who didn't help the nurse correct that issue before he/she went into the workplace.
Being perceived as a professional is a whole process of writing, speaking, and presenting yourself in a certain way. Several people have said "Nurses are the most trusted professionals" and that's been true for many years. You can't overlook the nurses who have been in the profession for decades since they helped to earn that respect from the public. Why do you think the public trusts us? Ahh... A thought for another day.
all true. and yes, i'm sure there are some people on here that may make spelling mistakes on their resumes/charting. it is unprofessional and looks very bad.
but like someone stated before, this is a message board. more of a place to "let your hair down". do you guys think i'm typing my resumes without capitalizing the first letter of my sentences?
we are not in the work place environment. we are out after a hard day of work, venting, discussing issues, and helping each other, all over a tall glass of beer. when i'm out with my friends, i dont need be as i am in a professional work environment.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
Depends on how "fore" you go...back before the 19th century, spelling was incredibly inconsistent. Check out how English monarchs used to sign their names...Elizabeth I used a couple of different spellings of HER OWN NAME.
DH and I have 4 undergraduate language degrees and one masters in language education between us. Unfortunately I could go on and on about spelling and grammar, and the evolution of spelling and grammar in the English language. Wikipedia does have a decent page about it:
If I spoke the language of my forefathers, it wouldn't be English: 2nd generation native English speaker here.
My words were really inexact and didn't reflect what I meant - I was thinking about a written document with more than one author using a different spelling for the same word within that document. The entilre subject of language is fascinating (and vast) though! Thanks for the link!
I guess what's old is now new in another way -when my son was in first grade they used a method called "invented spelling" to teach reading/writing. They had to hold assemblies for the freaking out parents wanting to know why they allowed this to happen. I can't remember the exact reason why this was supposed to be superior. Something about grasping concepts first, and it will be easy for the kids to then pick up the correct spelling.
Oh Paaahleeeessse!!! It really is NOT that serious. People get their panies in a bunch for no reason. If you don't like the way people write then don't join a public forum!
Oh Paaahleeeessse!!! It really is NOT that serious. People get their panies in a bunch for no reason. If you don't like the way people write then don't join a public forum!
Unfortunately there will always be those who want everyone else to subscribe to their wishes. I write the way I want to be perceived, not how others say I should. At the end of the day you are absolutely right... This is a public forum... Here we act by choice. If I read a post that doesn't make sense to me or seems completely wacko, I simply move on to the next one, but not everyone can do this
I hate to mention the following, as it will annoy or offend others. So please don't shoot the messenger.
I frequently work with antidefamation/antiracism groups. Part of this has involved monitoring websites that promote racism/racial separatists.
As a note, many of these of these groups require their posters to follow certain guidelines. Among them, you will find bans on text speak, and significant encouragement to post in an understandable manner, limit foul (other than slang terms for the groups that they denigrate) language, limit use of certain terms and symbols, and to use proper grammar and spelling.
Now, they do not have "perfect" grammar and spelling. But notably, the posters write SUBSTANTIALLY better than many of the posters on allnurses. And that is something that I find sad and frightening. There is no textspeak or posts all in caps.
Why do these groups make that effort and push their members to post in a literate manner? It is because they want to be seen as educated, intelligent individuals. They do not not want to play into the sterotype of the uneducated poor trash bumpkin racist. So trash posts are limited or removed.
How sad is it that educated nurses do not see the same value of exhibiting good language skills.
No one is requiring perfect grammar. Virtually, all of us will make small errors and I am sure, many will point plenty of errors that I have posted.
But when outsiders see this highly educated group of nurses write poorly, it is going to be seen as a reflection on nurses as a whole.
How sad is it that educated nurses do not see the same value of exhibiting good language skills.
No one is requiring perfect grammar. Virtually, all of us will make small errors and I am sure, many will point plenty of errors that I have posted.
But when outsiders see this highly educated group of nurses write poorly, it is going to be seen as a reflection on nurses as a whole.
again and again, yes, yes, yes.
this has nothing to do with this being a forum.
it has much more to do with having self-respect.
just as many of us groom/dress in a manner that exudes self-worth, the way we express ourselves verbally and in writing, should hold just as much value.
but since we're talking about how nurses appear to the public at large, we are selling ourselves short when we respond either defensively or apathetically, to criticisms that we appear uneducated.
to seriously believe that none of this matters, is short-sighted and frankly, downright delusional.
IF we want to be considered "professionals" (whether we meet the criteria or not), we need to actually be qualified in being accepted as such.
and that means having a fundamental understanding of eng 101, and all it encompasses.
there is absolutely nothing unreasonable in having these minimal expectations of ourselves and each other.
and it is profoundly disappointing when other nurses, just don't see why it's such a big deal.
in the meantime, let's not complain about any of nursing's lack.
because if we cannot agree on elemental basics as an initial step forward, then divided we will remain...
I like your point, unfortunately, this site is not monitored so strictly. It is to the benefit of a poster to post their thoughts in a manner that is understandable. However, that does not always happen here. There may be many different reasons why people post what they post and how they post it. In general, yes outsiders viewing this site may conclude some nurses lack professionalism, but what profession is complete with all professionals? I do get your point though, which is why I try to always write how I want to be perceived (educated).... Although at times may miss an apostrophe or comma here and there.
just as many of us groom/dress in a manner that exudes self-worth, the way we express ourselves verbally and in writing, should hold just as much value.
but since we're talking about how nurses appear to the public at large, we are selling ourselves short when we respond either defensively or apathetically, to criticisms that we appear uneducated.
to seriously believe that none of this matters, is short-sighted and frankly, downright delusional.
IF we want to be considered "professionals" (whether we meet the criteria or not), we need to actually be qualified in being accepted as such.
and that means having a fundamental understanding of eng 101, and all it encompasses.
there is absolutely nothing unreasonable in having these minimal expectations of ourselves and each other.
and it is profoundly disappointing when other nurses, just don't see why it's such a big deal.
in the meantime, let's not complain about any of nursing's lack.
because if we cannot agree on elemental basics as an initial step forward, then divided we will remain...
which is sadly, nothing new...nothing new at all.
leslie
you did not capitalize the beginning of your sentences. you must write like that at work too. i would not trust you to take care of me
This is an interesting topic that seems to have stirred quite a bit of emotion as well! I have to review patient charts, including progress notes every day from a variety of discliplines (Doctors, Nurses, Therapists, Dieticians, Social Workers etc). Whenever there is a problem, or potential problem with a patient...such as an injury or potential lawsuit, I have to go into an even higher gear and dig deeper into every aspect of a patient's chart.
The unfortunate fact of life is that many of the notes I see from nurses is reflected in the writing on this message board. The same type of sloppy writing, misspelling, incorrect word use and an apparent lack of caring about exactly what is written in patient records. I don't even want to think about the grammar!! It appears in all age levels, nursing levels and education levels. But it is most common in younger/newer nurses. And as I previously stated, I review all clinical disciplines, so I can say that NURSES are main offenders (95%).
Whether it's a popular view or not, the truth is when charts are being reviewed for a legal case, if a note looks unprofessional and sloppy, it certainly looks as if the patient did not receive good care. You may be the best nurse in the world but a lawyer can make you look incompetent if your documentation is full of misspellings, poor grammar and incorrect words. That is a fact of life.
Should you live your life worried about that? Of course not until that one time you do get named in a lawsuit. And you NEVER know when that will be, so always write like a professional. And it is not "eating our young" to encourage them to write professionally and not use slang or text-speak language in their everyday interactions. It's not appropriate and it IS costing them employment opportunities. I also get to look at resumes, applications and cover letters! How will they know it's not appropriate in an professional setting if they are not being told? Isn't that what a mentor is supposed to do? I love mentoring new nurses! Suggesting ways to improve is just as important as all the positive feedback. I know that nurses are not called for interviews when their initial contact with the facility is full of words that are not used properly, not spelled properly and the grammar is horrible. I feel sorry for the nurse who sends it and angry at the nursing school who didn't help the nurse correct that issue before he/she went into the workplace.
Being perceived as a professional is a whole process of writing, speaking, and presenting yourself in a certain way. Several people have said "Nurses are the most trusted professionals" and that's been true for many years. You can't overlook the nurses who have been in the profession for decades since they helped to earn that respect from the public. Why do you think the public trusts us? Ahh... A thought for another day.
One hundred percent agree.
One angle to look at, is that some programs have changed admission criteria. Anecdotally speaking, a few years ago a local college began admitting nursing candidates on a first come, first served basis. As I understand it, the sole requirements for admission were passing all the pre-req's with a cummulative GPA of 2.7 or better.
They then began churning out multiple classes per semester, with groups of students starting the program throughout the year. A classic "Nurse Mill" and it's a disservice to a profession I hold dear, and to the students paying for an education.
We all work with RN's that are not naturally-inlcined to effective written English, and that's fine. I'm no master of it myself. But there are those that at least put forth the effort to pay attention to the basics, and those that don't.
SweetPEI
214 Posts