SORRY - i have to rant about this. I don't want to start a fight- and I'm not going to generalize about all BSN or ADN programs. They have to be evaluated individually on their own merits but....... The constant arguement over ADN vs BSN is driving me crazy!!!! People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
I am a 36yo pre-nursing student at a CC (in greater OKC metro). I have a previous BS in a science. I still have pre-reqs to do and support course to finish just to be competitive. & believe me- competition is HIGH- even for the lowly ADN Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
I have never seen an ad for a job that said "ADN need not apply"- all they ask for is the RN current license- yes, I understand that the BSN may be needed to go into higher mangement etc.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. Also, the BSN programs don't accept many students- the smaller universities have only 20-50/ year and the larger major university accepts around 120/year. &That particular program had over 700 applicants last year!!!! YA I can just walk in and "get" my BSN- hahahahah
BTW- compare NCLEX pass rates
major university- 83% my CC - 87%
university#2 - 57% cc#2 - 87%
university #3 - 50% cc#3 - 82%
now, tell me- would I really want to go to a program that only 50% passed?? what good is a BSN if I can't pass boards? I realize there are many factors to it, but come on....50%!
Let me give you an eye opening fact---if OKC (local metro areas) went to "all BSN" this year and did away with ADN--they would lose 248 new nurses! (that's how many passed boards from 3 major ccs last year) WOW- you think we're short on nurses now- try cutting out all those new grads.
I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
At least around here- all the ADN/ASD are very professional, highly technical, and very competitive. There are no "waiting lists". You have to apply every semester, meet basic requirements, then compete with GPA, preference points, etc. NONE of them simply put you on a list for meeting the requirements.
It may be different in your neck of the woods, but that how it sits here.
Everyone has to make their own choice, evaluate their own needs and the programs available. I'm done- I feel better - thanks for listening:rolleyes:
I'm going to OSU-OKC. they have a great NCLEX pass rate.
actually SWOSU is one of the top 3 schools in the nation for their RN program. but I can't afford to drive to weatherford LOL.
HI- I'm going to OKCCC. It was a toss up between osu-okc and okccc, both have great reputations, programs, and pass rates. BUT more of my previous classes transferred (even though my BS is from OSU-stillwater???) and I had more choices in courses and times. Scheduling worked out better for the family. I've had great instructors so far, and like the people. We have a real diverse group- many different ages, backgrounds etc. Lots of non-traditional students like me:)
Like I said, I didn't mean to start a fight. I've been frustrated lately due to people saying things like "why aren't you going to OU--you're so smart?" OR "you're JUST earning the RN? You're smarter than that" AAARRRGGG! I feel like I automatically have to defend my choice to people. The other day- after I made 100% on an exam, a friend said, "of course you did, it's just community college"----OMG!!!! I studied my booty off, they don't realize how challenging classes are!
I looked at both degrees and chose this path for many reasons; money, schedule, competition, campus environment etc.
Each person has to evaluate their needs and the programs available.
It used to happen to me when I was in massage school, too. This program is better than that one because blah, blah, blah. I've met MTs from many programs who were exellent therapists, and some who didn't know their ischial tuberosity from their epicondyles (lateral OR medial).
It's what you make of your program, what you put into it, and what you get out of it that matters. Many decisions today are made because of financial considerations (I know most of mine were), but that doesn't mean that you won't come out of whatever program you participated in as an excellent nurse. Folks make statements based on what THEY believe. If you are smart, you'll do well regardless of your program.
I'm enrolled in a CC with a goal of ADN, but I do plan to go on for my BSN once I'm working. Money, money, money... it drives us all crazy!!
that has been frustrating me as well. i am twenty-eight years old, and just returning back to school, gotta finish all of these crazy requirements.
I too, will be pre-nursing. and ADN seemed good enough to me, until i kept hearing about everyone seeking and suggesting an eventual BSN.
i was very daunted about that, my timeline, and the fear of all the costs and competition of BSN schools made me think, that i should re think what i wanted!
I, of course, want great teachers, and i want to be knowledgeable in my field and be able to take excellent care of my patients, but............
to be so much in debt and in school forever...............is it necessary?
So I agree with you. Hope you don't mind. i am new to the thread, but i found yours comforting.
Specializes in ICU, PICC Nurse, Nursing Supervisor.
I was just thinking how expensive that is. I paid 52/hr at Tarrant College and that was with out of county fee's. I will have to pay 100/hr at the major university I go to for my BSN....holy moly...
Hi Richele,
Wow, $175 for a 3 credit course at your CC? That is fantastic!! Here in Southern Connecticut, the fee for a 3 credit course is approx. $320. That is good but your CC really is inexpensive. The CC here charges $2600 per yr. for full-time student status of 18 credits or less, not including lab fees or books. How much is your CC for a full yr? The fee for an ADN program at a local hospital's private college is approx. $21K per yr. and you can only transfer in no more than 18 credits from any other school. The BSN program at a local private university, Fairfield Univ. charges $31K+ per yr. currently and that is NOT including the many fees involved in the Nursing program, uniforms, or books. I do hope to get accecpted into the ADN program at St. Vincent's College because I like the atmosphere, the fact that it is a Catholic based institution as well as a good hospital so much better than the other Diploma based Nursing program at Bridgeport Hospital. I just hope tht when I do end up applying in the summer or fall of 07' that I will not be in too much competition. I wish you and everyone sll the best in your studies
It must depend a lot on what part of the country you are from...I live on the Minnesota/North Dakota border and in my area the closest ADN program is about an hour away! We do however have two BSN programs around. Also, the hospitals around here always say "BSN preferred" in their job descriptions so I'm confused. I wish I could just get an ADN but unless I want to move there are no other options!
In my area, magnet status is a big deal for hospitals. In order to achieve magnet status a certain percentage of their nurses have to have a BSN, so it might help you get a job. Also in this area, an ADN can be a nurse manager, but she has to be pursuing her BSN. The CC with the ADN program has the wait list and the BSN program doesn't in my town. My friends that are ADN nurses counseled me to get my BSN, they wished they had gotten it from the beginning so they wouldn't have to deal with going back to school. I am 37 and once I am done with school, I want to be done with school.
I actually feel bad for the ADN students. I talk to them at clincals, we all get along. They get somewhat ripped off, their program is two years, our program is 2 years and 4 months (after we are accepted into the program). They have another year or two of pre-reqs before getting into their program. By the time they graduate, they have about 20-30 credits less than the BSNs and are in school as long as we are. Another falsehood in my eyes is this; I don't understand how one nurse can be more prepared than another when they do their clinicals at the same places with the same nurses? There was a nurse questioning her ADN program on the graduate nurse forum because she has never given a Lovenox shot and she is a grad. nurse. I gave my first Lovenox shot my very second clinical day. It doesn't mean that girl had a bad program and I had a good one, it means that that opportunity never came up for her during clinicals.
I feel like the ADN vs BSN vs Diploma nurse argument is blown way out of proportion. It is perpetuated by BSN nurses with a superiority complex and ADN/Diploma nurses with a chip on their shoulders. It is like the military with the officer/enlisted thing, a big ole crock of feces. There are great and crappy progrms no matter what the degree type. If one throws around NCLEX pass rates, they need to throw them around for the entire population taking the test, not just a couple of schools. I personally didn't give a hooey about the NCLEX pass rate while looking at schools, because I knew I would do what it takes for me to pass the NCLEX. We all take the same NCLEX prep class here, it is offered independently of our schools.
Whew, what a catharsis, I am sick of feeling like crap because of the degree I personally chose to pursue.
In my area, magnet status is a big deal for hospitals. In order to achieve magnet status a certain percentage of their nurses have to have a BSN, so it might help you get a job. Also in this area, an ADN can be a nurse manager, but she has to be pursuing her BSN. The CC with the ADN program has the wait list and the BSN program doesn't in my town. My friends that are ADN nurses counseled me to get my BSN, they wished they had gotten it from the beginning so they wouldn't have to deal with going back to school. I am 37 and once I am done with school, I want to be done with school.
I actually feel bad for the ADN students. I talk to them at clincals, we all get along. They get somewhat ripped off, their program is two years, our program is 2 years and 4 months (after we are accepted into the program). They have another year or two of pre-reqs before getting into their program. By the time they graduate, they have about 20-30 credits less than the BSNs and are in school as long as we are. Another falsehood in my eyes is this; I don't understand how one nurse can be more prepared than another when they do their clinicals at the same places with the same nurses? There was a nurse questioning her ADN program on the graduate nurse forum because she has never given a Lovenox shot and she is a grad. nurse. I gave my first Lovenox shot my very second clinical day. It doesn't mean that girl had a bad program and I had a good one, it means that that opportunity never came up for her during clinicals.
I feel like the ADN vs BSN vs Diploma nurse argument is blown way out of proportion. It is perpetuated by BSN nurses with a superiority complex and ADN/Diploma nurses with a chip on their shoulders. It is like the military with the officer/enlisted thing, a big ole crock of feces. There are great and crappy progrms no matter what the degree type. If one throws around NCLEX pass rates, they need to throw them around for the entire population taking the test, not just a couple of schools. I personally didn't give a hooey about the NCLEX pass rate while looking at schools, because I knew I would do what it takes for me to pass the NCLEX. We all take the same NCLEX prep class here, it is offered independently of our schools.
Whew, what a catharsis, I am sick of feeling like crap because of the degree I personally chose to pursue.
I know what you mean on the length of time in school with both programs. I have a choice to start nursing classes in Jan. of 06 at the CC, I also have been accepted to a univeristy this fall of 05. I could graduate from the CC in Dec. 2007, I could graduate from the four year university in May of 2008. There is only one semester difference between the two degrees. If I went one extra semester I would have my BSN. It makes more sense to me to obtain that four year degree. I am like you, I am going to turn 40 in September, I don't want to go back to school after I start working, I would rather have it over with also. Unless I want to pursue my Masters later on. It is not that much longer of a program to finish your BSN rather your ADN. At least that has been what I have found. As for money, I will have to take out loans I am sure, so far been receiving a grant. That is okay though. Most people do end up taking out loans to get their Bachelor's. You would probably have to do that if you got your ADN first and starting working, then went back to school for your BSN. I sometimes think the old saying is true, you get what you pay for.
OMG!! the whole thing continues and I've helped to propogate it. Sorry
My point was not to make anyone feel bad for their degree, or be militant about the adn, or say one is "better" than the other. I meant the exact opposite-they are both valuable but different. AND one may fir your life & goals better than the other. Because I have chosen the adn path, I can take 1 or 2 classes a semester, work part time and still have the time with my kiddos. I will have ALL the support courses finished when I enter NS so I'll go part-time then too. This would not be a choice at the university- I would have a full load for 2 years- after I finished pre-reqs. it works better for me.
My original post was a RANT from frustration due to attitudes toward the degrees, and the constant defending that I have to do of my choice.
If you're getting your BSN-great. I'm glad you're able to that. AND I realize that in every state/city the schools are different, the programs vary, there are waiting lists a mile long, etc. Our opportunities differ from person to person and state to state.
BTW when I went to the seminar at OU, the counselor was actually telling people with GPAs lower than about 3.4 to go get their LPN or RN and come back. If you have an LPN or RN you DON'T HAVE TO COMPETE TO GET INTO THE BSN PROGRAM--if you meet minimum requirements, you're in with advanced standing.
I know that any program is what you put into it----my point exactly. Both paths are valid, none of us will pass nclex or be good nurses without putting all our energy into it.
If you have a prior BS, then it wont matter that your BS is not in nursing anyway.
You have an RN and a BS....nothin wrong with that!
We all do what works best for each of us individually. NOBODY ELSE can tell you what works best for you! All the "where theres a will theres a way" in the world does no good if it doesnt work for you and your family!
Some folks are perfectly satisfied (and should be) with their AD.
For me getting the BS after I got the AD was about several things - a personal goal I set for myself, not wanting to be the only person in my family in without a BS, and a host of other reasons. I was chastised for a couple of people for going back to school. THEY couldnt see why it was important to ME. Could I have done it if it would have involved paying private University tution or if I would have had to quit work to do it? NO!!! I did what worked for me, I am happy I got the AD first, that worked for me too.
People just need to zip their lips sometimes. We all make our OWN choices based on our OWN situations and coping ability!
People act like I've really got a choice- like I can just walk out and "get" either one. ya right.
NOW, why I'm not doing the BSN. Here in OKC we have a few BSN programs at state & private universities, and even a few BS to BSN accelerated. The tuition ranges from $20,000 to over $50,000. Having loans from a previous degree & a husband that makes a good salary- I don't qualify for financial aid. SO....if anyone expects me to get that degree- hand over the $$$$$$, please. I'm just frustrated with the whole discussion. Like I've said, people act like all of us have EVERY option available, or that we can afford it, or that these programs are just waiting for me to come and "get" my degree.
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I think you made some very valid points. Many people seem to believe that everyone in this country has access to a four-year degree, and that those of us who don't have that degree are not motivated in some way. There are no BSN programs around here, and the closest one requires a RN license before acceptance, so the local community college program is the ONLY choice for those of us who live around here, and who can't just move to a new city or state to get a BSN. Parents who want to go to nursing school can't just apply at colleges hundreds of miles away from home, move their families to that area, and take out student loans if they're already in debt. It is significantly less expensive to get an associate's degree than a BSN, and according to what I've seen on this site, the pay rate is not that different between the degrees. I also don't see any ads that say they won't hire a nurse with an associate's degree, so if you want a BSN, then that's great, but many nurses I know have well-paid jobs, and they "only" have an associate's degree.
I'm in agreement that people with ADN degrees can be just as good of nurses as those with BSN's. My mom got her ADN from a CC in the Minneapolis area and she's a great nurse and has had many opportunities throughout her career. I don't know if I am reading some people's opinions the wrong way but it seems as though some people think getting a BSN first seems foolish. For me there is no other option than to get my Accelerated BSN (18 mo. total). I could get my ADN from a school 50 miles away but I would have to get my LPN first (2.5-3yrs total). It will obviously be more expensive but for the amount of time I spend working part-time while in school for 3 yrs makes up for it in my mind. I think that CC is a good choice for many (especially when it comes to location) but bottom line is the quality of education. I wish I could find a quality CC in my area but unfortunately the closest one is again an hour away. Like many other people I'm not going to uproot myself if I have a good program already available to me. In my case I believe I will get an excellent educational and clinical experience from the BSN program I selected and to me that's worth the extra expense (and not having to drive an hour to school!)
Last semester there were 300 applicants for 50 spots. I have loved all my instructors, been impressed with the level of instruction, and feel prepared.
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okie2
153 Posts