PAs Do Not Like Us

This whole debate looks oddly similar to how MDs not liking DOs initially. Then as time went on...the two put their differences aside.

Let's hope it's the same for PAs and NPs.

Ouch.

I was not poorly trained. I did have to learn a lot of stuff on my own, but I was well trained to start that process.

I am a believer in nursing practice. I don't think it's ********.

Nursing practice is not a separate body of knowledge. It's a different method of healing than the medical model. Medicine is about finding the source of disease in the person and eliminating it. That's very important.

Nursing practice is about looking at the entire person including all the body systems, and the person's place in the community (family, work, society at large) and promoting health from that perspective. That is also very important.

I am on my way to becoming a psych NP. I am not looking to be a lesser version of a doctor, but a nurse who also prescribes and orders labs, etc.

Don't you think the physician does that too? This sounds like that whole heart of a nurse, brain of a doctor campaign.

This whole debate looks oddly similar to how MDs not liking DOs initially. Then as time went on...the two put their differences aside.

Let's hope it's the same for PAs and NPs.

It does, I agree. However, the differences is that MDs/DOs have similar training during school and share the same residencies. I can't imagine PAs and NPs doing that one day unless some radical changes happen to nursing curriculum.

Thanks for posting that, Dodongo. Aside from the detailed comparisons of the program content, all their angst and hand-wringing struck me as funny, as it made me think of all the posts we get from the student doctor network as well. It seems that for all the accusations we get about our profession being so insecure, I just don't see NPs feeling the need to go out of their way to trash others on their home turf as they do to ours.

Tends to happen when certain groups claim equivalence when there is not. Not that medicine is a holy angel either but turf battles get fought when other groups tread on false claims

So much misinformation running around that site almost makes me want to sign up to correct it. Not suggesting that np education is better or worse, but it's is different and more clinical area specific. If I was expected to do the work in an acute care, primary care, women's health-care or surgery setting under the same license, I'd expect a broader more robust clinical existence as well. But I'm not. I'm an fnp trained in primary care and the 800 plus hours were dedicated to that environment. More NPs do need to recognize the limitations of their training, but they shouldn't let the misinformation other career paths push discredit or marginalize their own choices.

Tends to happen when certain groups claim equivalence when there is not. Not that medicine is a holy angel either but turf battles get fought when other groups tread on false claims

I'm not sure who is or is not claiming equivalence or superiority. Nurse practitioners are a part of the healthcare puzzle just like PAs. It doesn't mean we are equal nor does it mean or training must be equal. If anything, we have set ourselves up for a harder path as we need to maintain multiple certifications and clinical competencies if we hope to expand to other clinical areas. Their clinical hours and overall requirements are certainly superior, but more for the clinician who can and wishes to hang his hat at whatever they want. That doesn't undercut the 800 hours I spent in solid primary care oriented locations with no option of specialty locations. I'm betting most of those PAs didn't spend that many hours focusing on a single clinical area despite all those hours they needed to accrue.

i was focusing more on the above poster who said posts from SDN aren't always friendly when it comes to NPs. Sorry I should have specified. Essentially some docs have the right to pass the salt when NPs come in and state they can do everything a doctor can do day one with a less thorough training There is an interesting medscape article posted recently talking about if hospital medicine should be tossed to the PA/NP crowd for example.

The above posted also made it seem like nursing was the holier than though profession since "NPs don't go barging in and trash others on their own turf"

Essentially they are doing this with the whole "our care is as good as a doctors and we even care," or as depicted above as the "heart of a nurse, brain of a doctor adage," along with non convincing equal care in primary care studies nursing organizations have tossed out.

I had never noticed that PAs had their own forum too but I am assuming everybody does lol.

I've been impressed by less than 50% of the PA's who've treated me. Only once has a NP disappointed me. When my parents were alive they raved about NP's. NP's have more autonomy, too. Of course the PA's are jealous!

I was specifically talking about my Home school so yes it is correct. Why do I need data for this shibaowner?

also I doubt nps are any more holistic overall than MD or DOs. Most schools have some sort of holistic mindset nowadays anyway.

Nursing does not have a patent on holistic care lol

You complained about your school; that does not mean all NP programs are similar. It is on you to research your NP school before attending.

Based on my experience, DOs take a more holistic approach than MDs, and I also shared my personal experience. Yes, there are MDs who take a holistic approach, but many do not. I was trained to take a holistic approach.

I hate this whole conversation. I find this perceived competition so childish. We are supposed to be professionals. I have worked with a ton of NPs and PAs and I've never met a bad one. I just don't see this concept of the "poorly trained" NP in my state. Maybe my state just has better standards but the NPs I know and work with are incredible. They're smart, knowledgeable and leaders in their profession. They often teach the residents in fact. The ICU that I'm in right now is run by NPs, and they really know their stuff...they astound me actually. I'm so confused by this anti-NP prevalence. It must be the circles I move in because I see none of this. Yes, I agree the concept of online schools and no nurse experience is totally unacceptable, but that's a rarity where I practice. We have some really excellent schools in this state and a lot of very smart people. I emulate them, and foster a culture of collegiality, as it should be. The NPs I work with are highly regarded and respected within the hospitals, by MDs and PAs alike and that respect is mutual. Perhaps if we all focused on our education instead of gossiping on an online forum, we could change the world.

This whole debate looks oddly similar to how MDs not liking DOs initially. Then as time went on...the two put their differences aside.

Let's hope it's the same for PAs and NPs.

They would have to change curriculum to mirror md or do in length, content, and intensity

I hate this whole conversation. I find this perceived competition so childish. We are supposed to be professionals. I have worked with a ton of NPs and PAs and I've never met a bad one. I just don't see this concept of the "poorly trained" NP in my state. Maybe my state just has better standards but the NPs I know and work with are incredible. They're smart, knowledgeable and leaders in their profession. They often teach the residents in fact. The ICU that I'm in right now is run by NPs, and they really know their stuff...they astound me actually. I'm so confused by this anti-NP prevalence. It must be the circles I move in because I see none of this. Yes, I agree the concept of online schools and no nurse experience is totally unacceptable, but that's a rarity where I practice. We have some really excellent schools in this state and a lot of very smart people. I emulate them, and foster a culture of collegiality, as it should be. The NPs I work with are highly regarded and respected within the hospitals, by MDs and PAs alike and that respect is mutual. Perhaps if we all focused on our education instead of gossiping on an online forum, we could change the world.

I am assuming your hospital only hires from the top notch schools and is rather selective, as this does not seem to be the norm.