Should NPs learn from Korean MD strikes?

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Mar 4

You are discussing 2 separate issues:

1. NP diploma mills - I agree with you that we should not have these. So how would you suggest NPs advocate against these?

2. NP "saturation." There is no evidence at all that there are too many NPs. We have dire shortages of primary care and mental health care providers in many parts of California and the US. There is certainly a shortage of primary care MDs and psychiatrists and this is only going to get worse. This will lead to an increased demand for NPs.

There may be an NP distribution problem. There may be saturation of NPs in certain geographic areas. However, there are shortages of providers in other geographic areas. So, NPs who want to maximize their job prospects must be willing to move.

Finally, I'm not willing to go on strike. There is no NP union and I have bills to pay.

MentalKlarity, BSN, NP · Mar 5

FullGlass said:

You are discussing 2 separate issues:

1. NP diploma mills - I agree with you that we should not have these. So how would you suggest NPs advocate against these?

2. NP "saturation." There is no evidence at all that there are too many NPs. We have dire shortages of primary care and mental health care providers in many parts of California and the US. There is certainly a shortage of primary care MDs and psychiatrists and this is only going to get worse. This will lead to an increased demand for NPs.

There may be an NP distribution problem. There may be saturation of NPs in certain geographic areas. However, there are shortages of providers in other geographic areas. So, NPs who want to maximize their job prospects must be willing to move.

Finally, I'm not willing to go on strike. There is no NP union and I have bills to pay.

NPs should not have to live in undesirable areas for a job. We have every right to live in desirable cities and make a good living. There are absolutely too many nurse practitioners graduating from diploma mill schools annually.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Mar 5

MentalKlarity said:

NPs should not have to live in undesirable areas for a job. We have every right to live in desirable cities and make a good living. There are absolutely too many nurse practitioners graduating from diploma mill schools annually.

That is a very unrealistic statement. The USA does not have guaranteed employment because we have a capitalist economic system. So no, no one has a right to live in "desireable cities and make a good living."

What people have in the USA is the opportunity to live in a nice place and make a good living. Big difference. That means each individual must make the choices that will allow them to attain these goals.

And what is a "desireable city?" That's a very subjective judgement. There are people who live in Barstow, CA and love it. But I would never live there. A lot of people think it's great to live in the San Francisco Bay Area/Silicon Valley. I lived there and hated it; would never live there again. I lived in L.A. for a long time and would never live there again due to the high cost of living, and the horrible traffic.

You have shared concerns about diploma mills. How do you propose NPs take action on this topic? I honestly don't know what we can do. It would be helpful if you would share what we can do.

MentalKlarity, BSN, NP · Mar 7

FullGlass said:

That is a very unrealistic statement. The USA does not have guaranteed employment because we have a capitalist economic system. So no, no one has a right to live in "desireable cities and make a good living."

What people have in the USA is the opportunity to live in a nice place and make a good living. Big difference. That means each individual must make the choices that will allow them to attain these goals.

And what is a "desireable city?" That's a very subjective judgement. There are people who live in Barstow, CA and love it. But I would never live there. A lot of people think it's great to live in the San Francisco Bay Area/Silicon Valley. I lived there and hated it; would never live there again. I lived in L.A. for a long time and would never live there again due to the high cost of living, and the horrible traffic.

You have shared concerns about diploma mills. How do you propose NPs take action on this topic? I honestly don't know what we can do. It would be helpful if you would share what we can do.

Don't go to these schools and don't ever hire or work with people who do. Make them a joke as they should be.

lifelearningrn, BSN, RN · Mar 7

MentalKlarity said:

NPs should not have to live in undesirable areas for a job. We have every right to live in desirable cities and make a good living. There are absolutely too many nurse practitioners graduating from diploma mill schools annually.

Please list all these 'diploma' mill schools saturating the market with NPs in desirable cities..

Supply and demand really rules the market, anywhere you live. Oversupply means less money and or opportunities.

MentalKlarity, BSN, NP · Mar 8

lifelearningrn said:

Please list all these 'diploma' mill schools saturating the market with NPs in desirable cities..

Supply and demand really rules the market, anywhere you live. Oversupply means less money and or opportunities.

Chamberlain, Phoenix, and Walden. Accept nearly 100% and have basically no standards for their admissions, they are for-profit and exist to make money from tuition not educate a competent workforce.

offlabel · Mar 8

MentalKlarity said:

Chamberlain, Phoenix, and Walden. Accept nearly 100% and have basically no standards for their admissions, they are for-profit and exist to make money from tuition not educate a competent workforce.

So how would 'going on strike' effect that? That's even pretending that NP's as a professional body possessed the ability to leverage a position by a strike. The thing to do would be to demonstrate superior training through superior practice, and if NP's from these 'mills' can't be out performed, there really is no argument to be made.

MentalKlarity, BSN, NP · Mar 9

What I meant by learning from them is taking some sort of action. The fact that they CARE about their profession and the future of it, unlike these misguided nurses

barcode120x, RN, NP · Mar 10

I've been looking this topic and comments for awhile and I am still not really understanding why you want me/NPs to go on strike. I work with great NP colleagues and I'm not fearful of losing my job to another new grad NP. I do agree there are more NP programs and that acceptance seems pretty easy, but so what? Most NP students still have to find their own clinicals/preceptors, they still have to put in their time and pass their classes, and lastly, they still have to take the same boards that we did. Then, they're on their own to find their own job and it's up to the employer to train them effectively. Based on your comment on " low quality NPs that saturate the field," I feel like you have quite the personal issue with working with new grad NP's and may be the reason for this post.

If your main issue is strictly the saturation and NOT "low quality NPs that saturate the field," and you want to de-saturate for whatever other reason, then you should be looking at the root cause which is the both the surge of prospective nursing student and huge dissatisfaction with bedside nursing, particularly in the hospital. I'd actually choose dissatisfaction with bedside nursing as the main cause for most going for their NP. It was for me and a few of my former bedside nurses.

ChristinaFNP, ASN, BSN, MSN, DNP, APRN · Mar 13

I am a little confused by your concern about "diploma mills" given you list your education as a NP but with a BSN. This tells me your have been grandfathered into a license that now requires a MSN to practice.

There are good and bad NPs, good and bad PAs, and good and bad physicians. I really don't think where they went to school has anything to do with the quality of the care they provide. As pointed out previously, they all pass the same certifying exam.

Life today is not amenable to the traditional brick and mortar school. Families are struggling and most require two incomes. If the "diploma mill" schools can pass the CCNE rigors and standards, who are YOU to say they do not provide quality education?

Instead, let us advocate for NPs to truly be an advanced practice profession and require a certain amount of years in bedside nursing as a prerequisite to attending a program. Let us support each other rather than creating division in our field. We have enough pressure from our physician colleagues without adding to it.

Christina DNP APRN FNP-BC

MentalKlarity, BSN, NP · Mar 19

ChristinaFNP said:

I am a little confused by your concern about "diploma mills" given you list your education as a NP but with a BSN. This tells me your have been grandfathered into a license that now requires a MSN to practice.

There are good and bad NPs, good and bad PAs, and good and bad physicians. I really don't think where they went to school has anything to do with the quality of the care they provide. As pointed out previously, they all pass the same certifying exam.

Life today is not amenable to the traditional brick and mortar school. Families are struggling and most require two incomes. If the "diploma mill" schools can pass the CCNE rigors and standards, who are YOU to say they do not provide quality education?

Instead, let us advocate for NPs to truly be an advanced practice profession and require a certain amount of years in bedside nursing as a prerequisite to attending a program. Let us support each other rather than creating division in our field. We have enough pressure from our physician colleagues without adding to it.

Christina DNP APRN FNP-BC

Physicians don't respect us because of diploma mill schools like Phoenix and Walden. End of story