If you've seen the news, Korean physicians are walking off the job and striking due to the Korean government's plan to increase the number of medical school slots by 2,000 annually, from 3,000 to 5,000. They are worried about saturation, lower quality, and of course, competition lowering their prestige and salary.
Meanwhile, NP schools seem to open up as easily and often as fast food joints, and many with comparable quality. Why won't NPs demand better of their boards and accrediting agencies, holding some of these for-profit diploma mills responsible and having them cap their class size and stop churning out low quality NPs that saturate the field? The saturation is clear, in my home state of California many of my RN colleagues who have gone back to school for an NP degree are still working as RNs as they make more money at the bedside.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
MentalKlarity said:
Physicians don't respect us because of diploma mill schools like Phoenix and Walden. End of story
I am now in charge of recruiting for our practice. If I see an NP resume and the person has only gone to diploma mills, I pass.
If someone has gone to reputable schools for part of their education, then I will consider them. For example, they went to a public community college for their ADN, did an ADN to BSN bridge program at a state college, then worked as an RN and went to a for-profit b/c that was the only thing they could that would fit with their work schedule, fine.
It is sad this is your attitude as you may be passing up some wonderful NPs solely because of where they went to school. I have never seen a NP that solely went to a "for profit" school for all their degrees as that cannot happen. And, FYI, all schools are for profit or they would be afforable. Have you seen the salary of their administration?
Sure hope you are never hiring for my department (and I went to a University with walls and buildings and even a football team). People like you are the reason nurses "eat their young". Shame on you.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
ChristinaFNP said:
It is sad this is your attitude as you may be passing up some wonderful NPs solely because of where they went to school. I have never seen a NP that solely went to a "for profit" school for all their degrees as that cannot happen. And, FYI, all schools are for profit or they would be afforable. Have you seen the salary of their administration?
Sure hope you are never hiring for my department (and I went to a University with walls and buildings and even a football team). People like you are the reason nurses "eat their young". Shame on you.
What is sad is the attitude of many prospective NPs and NPs that school doesn't matter - they openly ask for the easiest and fastest school, with no consideration of quality.
My attitude is common. I stated I will not consider hiring an NP that only went to for-profit schools, and yes, that is indeed possible. However, if someone went to a for-profit for one degree, then I would consider them.
NPs are professionals. Many on this forum want NPs to get higher pay and more respect. Then consider MDs - they go to the best school they can get into and afford. Prospective MDs don't ask for the "fastest and easiest" med school. In addition, there are NO for-profit med schools in the USA, thank goodness, because the medical profession does a much better job of maintain education standards. If NPs want higher pay and more respect, then they need to start thinking like professionals, not tradespeople, and demand the best schools possible.
In any profession, graduates of the best schools get the best job opportunities. Want to work for an elite consulting firm? You have to have an MBA from a top business school. Want to work for one of the top law firms? You have to have a law degree from a top law school. Same for medicine. And in nursing, graduates from top nursing programs also find it easier to get a job upon graduation and are more likely to get better jobs and higher pay.
I suggest you research the difference between a for-profit school and a nonprofit school.
It is sad this is your attitude as you may be passing up some wonderful NPs solely because of where they went to school. I have never seen a NP that solely went to a "for profit" school for all their degrees as that cannot happen. And, FYI, all schools are for profit or they would be afforable. Have you seen the salary of their administration?
Sure hope you are never hiring for my department (and I went to a University with walls and buildings and even a football team). People like you are the reason nurses "eat their young". Shame on you.
I'm sorry you don't realize the quality matters or really anything. Difference between for profit schools is that they accept 100% of applicants. There is no rigorous process to weed out the unintelligent because the reality is not everyone is smart enough to be a medical provider, but these schools don't do that so you can't trust the final product. If someone graduates from Harvard Medical School I am aware the product I am hiring is top notch and very intelligent. If someone graduates from Walden online NP Program they could be functionally illiterate for all I know as Walden only cares about money, not their reputation. I have encountered enough of these brain dead Walden and Phoenix graduates to know.
Specializes in Cardiology, Research, Family Practice.
I used to make it a policy to only precept NP students from local (in-state) brick and mortar schools. Never from Chamberlain, etc. Now I don't take any students at all. Sad because part of me feels obligated to "give back", but even the very reputable schools never made site visits or vetted me as a preceptor. This is concerning and it's no wonder NP education is so widely criticized. It's embarrassing and I hate being associated with it.
I used to make it a policy to only precept NP students from local (in-state) brick and mortar schools. Never from Chamberlain, etc. Now I don't take any students at all. Sad because part of me feels obligated to "give back", but even the very reputable schools never made site visits or vetted me as a preceptor. This is concerning and it's no wonder NP education is so widely criticized. It's embarrassing and I hate being associated with it.
Part of the reason I used to only precept students from Frontier. I knew they vetted their locations and observed their students in clinic multiple times through their rotations. Unfortunately I can't anymore now that I'm in the military. I will say though the military IPAP and US armed services university NP programs are producing since stellar PAs and NPs.
At the end of the day, diploma mills are pushing forward profoundly bad NPs with no oversight of their clinical progression or real world outcomes. They don't willingly produce their graduation rates and are worse about posting their board pass rates. Complicate that by our boards being an abysmal display of an entry level exam for a provider who could essentially walk right into a full empanelment and you have a recipe for disaster. We do need to hold our governing bodies and school credentialing organizations to a higher standard.
FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP
2 Articles; 1,942 Posts
I am now in charge of recruiting for our practice. If I see an NP resume and the person has only gone to diploma mills, I pass.
If someone has gone to reputable schools for part of their education, then I will consider them. For example, they went to a public community college for their ADN, did an ADN to BSN bridge program at a state college, then worked as an RN and went to a for-profit b/c that was the only thing they could that would fit with their work schedule, fine.
To clarify, for-profit schools are diploma mills.