I am an HIV LPN(NEW). My company hired a RN for role of clinic coordinator. This Rn was fired from a previous job 4-5 years ago, unknown reasons. We had the opportunity to interview her, myself and 3 PA's and her longest job in 5 years was 4 months. We said no, our director said yes.
She used to work at one of our affiliates clinics(where she was fired) and she asked me how can a pt. get transfered to us. We are a HIV clinic. I told her they just have to come over and change doctors. Needless to say the patient that she wanted to come over is also her live in boyfriend , who she met at the other clinic. She said she divorced her DOctor husband to be with him. She was his nurse and the pt is also a strong substance abuser. There are pictures of them kissing and on vacation on her web site. She has access to RX forms and other things. He is always here, hanging around. We sent pictures to our director, secretly, yesterday.
We don't know what will happen next.
QUESTION??????????Should the Illinois BON be informed. I looked up our nurses act and it states that one of the reasons for getting your license revoked, suspended is sexual contact with a patient.
David, you make some very good points. It is spelled out in my state's nurse practice act that as professionals, we are legally and ethically required to report the unprofessional conduct of other health care professionals.
However, since the OP was not a witness to the original situation and is only hearing about it in retrospect, I am in agreement here that there is a presumption and no direct evidence, and that the appropriate course of action is to let this one work itself out.
I would have an objection to *anyone's* boyfriend or spouse hanging around at the workplace, though, and I am in agreement that that should stop.
Per the OPs post the RN she describes met and began a relationship with the patient while she was a nurse there. This is a violation of the nursing practice act in pretty much every state. Having extricated herself from the position, the RN now is seeking to re-establish the problem. While it may not be a violation of the practice act to have her boyfriend move to the current clinic (depending on your state) it is a serious ethical violation. Ignoring the whole substance abuse issue, the nurse will have access to his medical records and test results. Most places have strong rules against treating family members (including SO's) and most practice acts at the very least describe this as a bad idea. It seems that there are a number of bad decisions being made here.
On the other hand I do agree that its really not OPs job to fix this. This will eventually fix itself. As far as reporting it to the nursing board, any professional generally has a duty to report violations to the respective board. In this case, there is no direct evidence that there is a violation just a presumption.
As a PA, in the unlikely event that I would stay around in such an organization, I would make sure my scrip pads were under my control and ensure that I got monthly lists of my schedule prescriptions (if your state offers this option).
Finally, we only have the OPs side of this story. There could be more than one point of view. This is the curse and promise of a bunch of anonymous people discussing things on the internet.
David Carpenter, PA-C
you're right, dave.
we don't know both sides.
we don't know the dynamics of the rn/pt relationship.
did it start after his discharge from her care?
how do we know that he's a substance abuser?
having hiv, i would imagine him to be on a somewhat complicated regimen of meds, depending on his presentation.
but reportable?
yes, we're nurses and know our professional boundaries.
but we're human too, and people fall in love.
if they fell in love when he was no longer a pt, i have no problem with that.
we just don't know as i'm sure the op doesn't know either.
truly, i have more of a problem w/the op's ethics than i do w/the rn's.
yes, it warrants monitoring.
but i hope it would be from an objective perspective, vs one w/malicious intent.
I think you should just take the sit back and watch approach. If you suspect something, you really have little choice but to keep your eyes open. Concentrate on yourself and let things lie for awhile. Give the nurse a chance to prove herself and maybe try taking on a supportive role. Just my
While the majority seems ready to pillory the OP, the OP does bring up some valid points. I find it interesting that people choose to attack the OP while ignoring the points that are brought up:
Per the OPs post the RN she describes met and began a relationship with the patient while she was a nurse there. This is a violation of the nursing practice act in pretty much every state. Having extricated herself from the position, the RN now is seeking to re-establish the problem. While it may not be a violation of the practice act to have her boyfriend move to the current clinic (depending on your state) it is a serious ethical violation. Ignoring the whole substance abuse issue, the nurse will have access to his medical records and test results. Most places have strong rules against treating family members (including SO's) and most practice acts at the very least describe this as a bad idea. It seems that there are a number of bad decisions being made here.
On the other hand I do agree that its really not OPs job to fix this. This will eventually fix itself. As far as reporting it to the nursing board, any professional generally has a duty to report violations to the respective board. In this case, there is no direct evidence that there is a violation just a presumption.
As a PA, in the unlikely event that I would stay around in such an organization, I would make sure my scrip pads were under my control and ensure that I got monthly lists of my schedule prescriptions (if your state offers this option).
Finally, we only have the OPs side of this story. There could be more than one point of view. This is the curse and promise of a bunch of anonymous people discussing things on the internet.
David Carpenter, PA-C
Judging from the OP's original spiteful post, I would bet an entire paycheck that the OP is making this assumption.
I think that is a reasonable thought process considering she is all but stalking this new RN just because the Director wanted to hire her, and I seriously doubt if someone who wasn't even a licensed healthcare professional when this person was hired, was involved in the hiring process at all....just my 2 cents.
The RN could have known the patient prior to that patient coming to the previous clinic and the nurse practice act doesn't apply just because someone is a patient in the same facility, that applies if you are directly responsible for their care to keep patients from being taken advantage of.
If that were the case, then everyone that worked at the local hospitals here would be single, because you only have one choice where I live unless you like driving an hour away. Workers there used to joke if they ever wanted to take a census of the area, all they had to do was access hospital records, because it's probably a duplication.
That isn't what it was designed to do. This patient isn't exactly disabled or not of sound mind, and for all we know the RN could be HIV positive herself, and that may be why she thinks nothing of dating this individual...but in the end, it's no one's business but their own.
The RN has no legal right to access the patient's medical records (and this should be monitored for ALL employees who are not working directly with the patient) and should not be involved in his care in any way...and you are assuming that she is.
This should apply for anyone working in a facility, not just her.
It just sounds like to me the OP obviously doesn't have enough to keep herself occupied at the clinic.
I am an HIV LPN(NEW). My company hired a RN for role of clinic coordinator. This Rn was fired from a previous job 4-5 years ago, unknown reasons. We had the opportunity to interview her, myself and 3 PA's and her longest job in 5 years was 4 months. We said no, our director said yes.
She used to work at one of our affiliates clinics(where she was fired) and she asked me how can a pt. get transfered to us. We are a HIV clinic. I told her they just have to come over and change doctors. Needless to say the patient that she wanted to come over is also her live in boyfriend , who she met at the other clinic. She said she divorced her DOctor husband to be with him. She was his nurse and the pt is also a strong substance abuser. There are pictures of them kissing and on vacation on her web site. She has access to RX forms and other things. He is always here, hanging around. We sent pictures to our director, secretly, yesterday.
We don't know what will happen next.
QUESTION??????????Should the Illinois BON be informed. I looked up our nurses act and it states that one of the reasons for getting your license revoked, suspended is sexual contact with a patient.
You only have hearsay to go by, what she said. I would leave it to those that are hiring her, though it does sound like you were part of the process. Was she hired with your facility already? It sounds like her previous experience is where the inappropriate act happened. Perhaps the BON could link that patient to her with her previous job, if she were under investigation. I don't know, but I'm sure the BON could direct you on this....
This person was considering notifying the BON with something that was absolutely not her business and was not a health care concern! She was willing to needlessly put someone's license in jeopardy because of her own pettiness!
BEWARE!
I believe the BON would laugh at such foolishness. They have more important fish to fry than getting involved in some imbecilic conspiracy born from someone's need to bring another person down.
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
While the majority seems ready to pillory the OP, the OP does bring up some valid points. I find it interesting that people choose to attack the OP while ignoring the points that are brought up:
Per the OPs post the RN she describes met and began a relationship with the patient while she was a nurse there. This is a violation of the nursing practice act in pretty much every state. Having extricated herself from the position, the RN now is seeking to re-establish the problem. While it may not be a violation of the practice act to have her boyfriend move to the current clinic (depending on your state) it is a serious ethical violation. Ignoring the whole substance abuse issue, the nurse will have access to his medical records and test results. Most places have strong rules against treating family members (including SO's) and most practice acts at the very least describe this as a bad idea. It seems that there are a number of bad decisions being made here.
On the other hand I do agree that its really not OPs job to fix this. This will eventually fix itself. As far as reporting it to the nursing board, any professional generally has a duty to report violations to the respective board. In this case, there is no direct evidence that there is a violation just a presumption.
As a PA, in the unlikely event that I would stay around in such an organization, I would make sure my scrip pads were under my control and ensure that I got monthly lists of my schedule prescriptions (if your state offers this option).
Finally, we only have the OPs side of this story. There could be more than one point of view. This is the curse and promise of a bunch of anonymous people discussing things on the internet.
David Carpenter, PA-C
Thanks for the voice of reason and posing another point of view.
i'm a bit confused about something: when you discovered the pictures, was this part of company policy to research the applicant over the internet or was this something you did yourself?
i am 50/50 here. for now, i'd leave it be. the relationship was going on before she was hired. but! let it run its course. i can see that drugs will come up that were not counted for, and that things will get a bit... iffy with what she's dipping in while she's in the pharmacy (since you said he has a history of abuse).
this is a good point, how did you go about getting this information in the first place?
if this applicant offered up the information, than i don't see how she could be blamed for browsing and finding incriminating information. i think other than being entertaining, i wouldn't push further. that's for the higher ups to decide (unless you're the higher up)
Once when I was in the Navy we got a new roommate fresh out of boot. Within an hour of coming into the room she sat there and listed off six people that had wronged her during boot camp that she got kicked out, including her company commander.
Not surprisingly about two months later I was called into the Senior Chief's office to answer to a complaint from her. She said that we had gotten in a fight over the weekend and I threw food at her and swore at her. I recounted our experience of her first night when she listed off all the people she had gotten kicked out and then produced the receipt from the hotel I had stayed at over the weekend because I was OUT OF TOWN :smackingf. The funny thing was, she hadn't even walked into the room for at least a month because she was staying with her boyfriend off base.
About a month after that she accused the boyfriend of beating her up and named me as a witness. She claimed that I had talked to her about bruises that he gave her. *****
I'm always leary of people who like to get other people in trouble.
Er... w-t-f is censored? That's unfortunate.
watch out with publicly arguing with words .... been there!
Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
The RN could have known the patient prior to that patient coming to the previous clinic and the nurse practice act doesn't apply just because someone is a patient in the same facility, that applies if you are directly responsible for their care to keep patients from being taken advantage of.
If that were the case, then everyone that worked at the local hospitals here would be single, because you only have one choice where I live unless you like driving an hour away. Workers there used to joke if they ever wanted to take a census of the area, all they had to do was access hospital records, because it's probably a duplication.
That isn't what it was designed to do. This patient isn't exactly disabled or not of sound mind, and for all we know the RN could be HIV positive herself, and that may be why she thinks nothing of dating this individual...but in the end, it's no one's business but their own.
The RN has no legal right to access the patient's medical records (and this should be monitored for ALL employees who are not working directly with the patient) and should not be involved in his care in any way...and you are assuming that she is.
This should apply for anyone working in a facility, not just her.
It just sounds like to me the OP obviously doesn't have enough to keep herself occupied at the clinic.
Other very valid points...the RN could be HIV+ herself (and no one has a right to be aware of her status, either-also, I hope that this is not a rumor that convienently just gets out), the law dictates that we should not sexually take advantage of a patient that has a sound body and mind or those who are directly under our care.
Also, it is a good point to consider that maybe, the nurse brought this man, who she may have already had a relationship with to a place that can help him, and it happened to be where she worked. How many times have we ALL done that...may it be a spouse, child or significant other that may have no insurance or needs medical attention? Heck, I brought my son to my clinic because he recently turned 21 and is in between doctors-he can no longer be maintained by his pediatrician and he has to choose a primary care doctor he can trust. He needed vaccines updated to attend college, so, I brought him there. I didn't sit in the room, or invade his privacy, but I made sure he got service so he can attend college.
I tend to think that the OP is a new, overzealous nurse for the moment, maybe younger than most of us...I could be wrong. Bottom line, the OP should stay out of it, unless things suddenly start walking that may point to her license and integrity as a nurse.
I tend to think that the OP is a new, overzealous nurse for the moment, maybe younger than most of us...I could be wrong. Bottom line, the OP should stay out of it, unless things suddenly start walking that may point to her license and integrity as a nurse.
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Virgo_RN, BSN, RN
3,543 Posts
David, you make some very good points. It is spelled out in my state's nurse practice act that as professionals, we are legally and ethically required to report the unprofessional conduct of other health care professionals.
However, since the OP was not a witness to the original situation and is only hearing about it in retrospect, I am in agreement here that there is a presumption and no direct evidence, and that the appropriate course of action is to let this one work itself out.
I would have an objection to *anyone's* boyfriend or spouse hanging around at the workplace, though, and I am in agreement that that should stop.