So with the risk of an active shooter being real these days and all those darn "no firearms allowed" signs that don't do anything against a bad guy (but do put my job at risk if I carry on campus). We need other options.
The other good option is a fire extinguisher (located all over facilities). Shoot the fire extinguisher into the bad guy's face and then smash their head in with the fire extinguisher once they are disorientated.
This thread did get derailed from the start but back to your point of non lethal alternatives. If I was in a facility with an active shooter and did not have a firearm and was able to escape I obviously would. Pepper spray, stun guns, etc are not very effective in my opinion. In the event that those would even be utilized the assailant would have to be within 15 feet or so which is already too late.
Specializes in Acute Care - Adult, Med Surg, Neuro.
Okay, so on the topic of hospital shootings. We just had training on this. They told us that hospital shootings are usually targeted at one individual. Such as a patient / family member angry at a specific doctor for something that happened. Patients and visitors are usually not targeted. Anyone in scrubs could be a target, however. We were told to do these things:
1 - Flee if at all possible.
2 - Hide. There are many rooms that are only accessible by key card. We also had patient beds and large furniture to barricade doors with. Shooters are usually moving quickly and do not stop to enter a blocked or locked door.
3 - Fight, ONLY as a last resort. Charge at the attacker and use any make shift weapon available, such as a chair or IV pole.
As for other non-lethal methods, we were told that a strong stance and a loud "NO!" as well as yelling for help, and keeping yourself between the person and the exit is important. We have Restraint Personal Requested (RVR) called for any out of control patient, family member, or visitor. We were taught some self defense techniques, such as getting out of a person's grasp. However, we were explicitly told not to harm anyone on purpose.
I have had to yell "NO!" at a few patients who were physically combative, and that immediately startled them into stopping so that I could remove myself. I have also had to call a RVR on a set of family members. I have told people "You need to lower your voice, and speak respectfully," and this has worked surprisingly well.
My hospital has armed security guards with response times that are less than a minute. I'm all for responsible private gun ownership. I have family in the military and I like to go to the shooting range with my father, but I'd never want to have a gun on me at work nor would I feel comfortable carrying one at work (even if I was allowed).
After some patients we have had recently, I am thinking about bringing pepper spray. We DO need to be able to defend ourselves when situations get questionable.
In January, we had an alert and oriented heroin user that we involuntarily committed per family's request because he was a "danger to himself." Lots of vegetation on his heart valves; some heart failure - he needed a valve, but CV surg wanted to wait until he was detoxed fully to replace his valves, hence why he was still in the hospital. He tried to escape multiple times. Lots of nurses/staff got black eyes taking care of him. I was fortunate that he was relatively calm and did not try to escape when I had him, though he spent the whole night pacing the room like a caged animal.
We've had another alert/oriented on our unit that was violent and snapped some vertebrae in a nurses's neck when he grabbed her head and pulled when she bent over. She was very lucky that her spinal cord was not damaged in the process. She ended up with a cervical spinal fusion. She can't turn her head as far as she used to be able to, but is otherwise fine. She is back at work with me today.
We had another just two weeks ago who was somewhat out of it, but in his low 30s and strong who broke some of his dad's ribs with a really strong kick and had one of nurses by the neck. Lots of bruising for that nurse, but no other damage.
Forget the active shooters. We sometimes need protection from the patients. Patients don't deserve to be shot, for sure, but nurses don't deserve broken necks either. We have the option to call a "code gray" and get a lot of security in the room, but often, security alerts are not called until the patient is already getting violent, and it's going to take security at least two to three minutes to get up to the room after the alert is called. A lot can happen in two to three minutes.
I don't think it's paranoia to be a little concerned about getting hurt when I've watched another nurse get her neck snapped in front of me. I am thinking about at least taking some self defense classes, but the fact still remains that I'm 5'4" and around 130 pounds, and that guy who broke his dad's ribs was well over six feet and over 200 pounds. I'm not sure how much pure self defense by itself would help me.
Yes, non-lethal methods may have saved those nurses some harm.
Smashing someone's head in with a fire extinguisher isn't always non-lethal. Just sayin'.
There are better/safer methods of self-defense available. They can in my opinion sometimes be necessary if de-escalation techniques have failed and you're cornered, alone and in imminent danger of grievous bodily harm.
I haven't finished reading all posts here, but whenever this type thread comes up (and I've seen it a few times) I'm reminded of a TV episode of Designing Women. Suzanne Sugarbaker, who carries, is being accosted. She tells the bad guy, "wait, wait, wait" as she rummages thru her purse to find her gun.
Don't like either of them, then get out of the thread.
1. In your opinion. We can all reverse engineer "facts" and find sources that support our existing opinions. We can do it all day.
2. No one owns a thread here. You start a thread, and, from there, it takes on a life of its own. The OP has no control over the other participants or comments that are made. If you feel strongly about being disagreed with, maybe you can find a forum somewhere in which people aren't allowed to disagree with you.
nutella, MSN, RN
1 Article; 1,509 Posts
I hope "us" is not in my neighborhood ... lol