School Shootings

Nurses General Nursing

Published

Yet another tragic loss of innocent life today in Santa Fe, Texas. Yet again! As a school nurse, and one who is close to your children and my children, every day during school, these senseless losses tear at my heart...and yet again, it happened today - again.

So here is the relevance of my post to "allnurses." Nurses are, probably, the most accomplished and innovative, critical thinking, problems solving, life saving, "git-er-done," people on the planet. It appears "the experts" have contributed only to reliving the definition of insanity in regard to school shooting; doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Sometimes it takes someone from the outside looking in to find the golden key.

I am requesting your ideas, recommendations, suggestions, thoughts, etc., regarding what you think would prevent future school shootings; as you would a head to toe assessment, identification, and intervention of your patient, so to speak. Or from any other relationship you have to school age children.

I am requesting genuine input. Sarcasm and political attacks are not welcome. If you don't have a contribution you think would be helpful, please don't.

If this turns out how I'm hoping it will, I intend to print the entire thread and mail it to the Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott; opinions from nurses from around the world - how to stop the insanity of school shootings!

Thank you!

Specializes in Telemetry, Case Management.

Metal detectors and single point entry like airports. I'm so tired of this crap. Last October, a girl came into my daughter's school in Lee's Summit, MO and committed suicide by shooting herself. She could have easily killed a lot of people. Yet, did the country hear about this? No. My community swept it under the rug because it makes the community look bad. Now everyone knows that it's easy to bring guns into school...waiting for the next tragedy.

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Specializes in Travel, Home Health, Med-Surg.

I also believe that we cannot compare our Country to Australia, apples and oranges. Australia is a much smaller country and without the problems we see in this country, partly because of their closed borders/immigration policies. This problem in our country is very complex and we need to stop blaming guns and look at the problems in our society that are the root cause. Of course, the bottom line is that the PERSON who commits a crime is the one responsible, but trying to figure out why might save others.

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We don't need to reinvent the wheel.

Many countries have gun control laws. You can own a gun in these countries, there are simply more restrictions and regulations.

Restrictions and regulations like no assault rifles, guns may only be used in hunting season and must be kept in a secure locker facility outside of the home, and a gun license must be earned by passing marksmanship exams and taking courses on biology and local ecology, as the only reason to have guns, in places where these kinds of rules exist, is to hunt game! I know some European countries have laws like these. Some people there are really into rural living and hunting game, and otherwise it's extremely difficult to obtain guns illegally.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.

Fantastic and thoughtful comments all...keep them coming. There is one thought from me that is emerging that I really didn't appreciate until reading these posts...although it's very helpful information, comparing our situation in the US to other countries might be a distraction for us. What do you guys think?

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Specializes in LTC, assisted living, med-surg, psych.

I've never thought comparing our country to others was particularly useful. Like someone else said, it's like comparing apples and oranges. Our culture and social norms are very different from other nations. That's not necessarily good or bad; it just is, and we have to work with what we have, not what Australia has or what Europe has.

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Metal detectors and single point entry like airports. I'm so tired of this crap. Last October, a girl came into my daughter's school in Lee's Summit, MO and committed suicide by shooting herself. She could have easily killed a lot of people. Yet, did the country hear about this? No. My community swept it under the rug because it makes the community look bad. Now everyone knows that it's easy to bring guns into school...waiting for the next tragedy.

There are 132,656 schools in this country. Let's be optimistic, and say that the average cost of maintaining and staffing was only $200,000. That is probably incredibly low, but I figure if you have small school, that could be covered by two well trained, armed security guards, plus per-diem coverage for sick days, training, hiring, administration, cost of maintaining equipment, uniforms, etc, maybe you could pull it off for that price in a small school. Now multiply that by 132,656 schools. Just that would add up to $26,531,200,000.

Now, in reality, there would have to be new state and federal agencies, oversight, training, etc. to make this happen. Think about airport security. Now think about the size security force it takes to get a couple thousand high school kids through security, and the cost of a well trained professional force to do it. That number I conjured up is probably a drop in the bucket.

My wife's school just had to actually debate between a school resource officer, which they no longer have, and a new teacher. Where on earth is this money going to come from.

Oddly, the crowd that is against any kind of reform in gun laws equally fervent against any additional taxes, and is particularly keen on slashing funding to public schools, education in general, and any public health initiatives.

Quite a political quandary. Where on earth would this massive increase in spending come from?

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Oncology, School Nursing, OB.

If someone really wants a gun they will find a way to get one whether it's legal or not just like they do drugs.

What makes a kid even contemplate doing this? Where's the empathy for other human beings? Where's the respect for life? What makes a kid say throwing my life away or dying is worth the risk of someone noticing me and my pain?

How many of us who work in the school system have seen young kids we just know will never graduate and most likely end up in jail and watch as the system fails them? I think a HUGE issue is every year I see tons of neglected kids in homes where the parents care more about themselves and their boyfriends or girlfriends or do drugs etc that aren't there emotionally and or physically putting their kids first. We call CPS repeatedly only to be told it's not bad enough to place them in a different home because their life isn't being threatened at the moment. There are not enough CPS workers and the ones we do have are required to have a bachelors degree many times and get paid next to nothing so that doesn't help. There are not enough foster homes available. Almost half of all babies born in our town are born with drugs in their system which shows you how big that whole problem is. Some kids come out of that and make something of themselves but some can't and then they have kids and don't know how to parent and every generation gets worse. We need to make kids a priority and help them when they are young and get them into good loving homes so if someone does put them down at school they'll have the self esteem to handle it. That's why bullies bully, they want to feel important and powerful because no one is making them feel that way. Also foster families need more workers checking on them more often, interviewing the kids away from foster parents, interviewing teachers to make sure a placement is being successful and providing better counseling for these kids and parent's to try and get them back together would go a long way. It takes forever for court dates and the kids need to quit being jerked from home to foster to home while parents repeatedly let them down. Also foster parents need better pay and incentives for dedicating so much time and effort to trouble kids. Hats off to those that try. We all want and need our parent's approval. If you don't feel loved by your parents it can affect you the rest of your life.

Why are so many parents unable to meet their own kid's needs? Depression through lack of jobs, inability to afford an education, sense of entitlement they don't have to do anything that's little bit of work, or expecting someone to rescue them? We have many parents who won't bother to take their kids to the dentist even though it's free for them. Then we offer it in the school and they won't bother signing the permission form. Why? Maybe we also need to help the parents so we can in turn help the kids. I think getting these kids and families help while they are very young would go a long way.

While I do think metal detectors would help, it's only a bandaid. I think the whole welfare system need some revamped. And the medical care system. We have many people say they can't afford to work because once they make over a certain amount they get medical benefits taken away and yet they aren't offered medical insurance they can afford through their job. The welfare system is set up to hold them back. So maybe companies should be forced to pay benefits for part time workers. Then they complain their prices would rise. Well wait, why does a CEO need million dollar salaries? They could bring down their salary to help their employees but they don't want that. See it's a very multi faceted problem with no easy answer but increasing social services and revamping the welfare system would go a long way in my opinion.

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

Blue Moon: I work with neglect and abuse cases in family court and teach anger management classes to teens on probation. I see so many kids from large families with parents making minimum wages and using drugs. Put to many rats in a cage and they get very restless. We are rats with keys. So very much casual childbearing and I don't blame the kids. I'm just glad I'm old. From nursing career I know that the velocity of bullets from weapons designed for war cause damage so far greater than bullets from handguns. There's just no reason for every Tom, Duck and Harry to carry a weapon that makes a head explode and concussed a lung to jello.

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Specializes in Adult Critical Care, Cardiothoracic Surgery.

Here is a point of view I had not considered until reading this article in the New York Times: Opinion | The Boys Are Not All Right - The New York Times

This by no means provides a solution that ensures a mass shooting will never happen again, but it offers some food for thought regarding the evolution of the male and female gender and how they each interact within modern society.

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I think metal detectors should be installed in all schools.

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I also believe that we cannot compare our Country to Australia, apples and oranges. Australia is a much smaller country and without the problems we see in this country, partly because of their closed borders/immigration policies. This problem in our country is very complex and we need to stop blaming guns and look at the problems in our society that are the root cause. Of course, the bottom line is that the PERSON who commits a crime is the one responsible, but trying to figure out why might save others.

I am pretty sure that whatever else comes with immigration, mass school shootings is a domestic, home grown product.

And, I am not sure anybody is blaming the guns- even the most liberal understand that guns are inanimate, and need people to be dangerous. And, in our country, when an object is dangerous in the hands of the wrong people, we control access to the object.

Take drones for example. Nobody blames drones for wreaking havoc with commercial flights. But, when it became obvious that, when used irresponsibly, they can take innocent lives, the FAA became involved.

Government regulation of things hazardous to the public are simply a part of life in an advanced, first world country. There are more regulations regarding my dog than my guns. Thank goodness cars were not part of a well regulated militia in the 1770's. I appreciate the fact that there are strict laws around them, and wish there was more regular testing, and higher standards. That doesn't mean I blame cars for traffic fatalities.

To the OP question: I don't have any concrete ideas on how to fix this problem.. While I am in favor of some sensible reform of gun laws, I am not convinced that will have appreciable effect on school shootings.

Banning "assault weapons" is ineffective. The difference between an assault rifle and a hunting rifle is mostly cosmetic. And banning semi-automatic hunting rifles is politically unrealistic considering the large use of them by perfectly reasonable hunters, and the fact that there are millions in the country now anyway. Banning sale of new high capacity magazines will probably bump the price up a few bucks, but there are millions available second hand. Even if 15 round magazines were all removed by some miracle, it would take two reloads instead of one to fire 30 bullets- not a huge life saver.

I am pessimistic about school shootings. I think the phenomenon will increase. I have heard no suggestions or ideas that I feel will meaningfully impact this situation, but I commend you on your effort to stimulate discussion. And, the even handed way you have dealt with people in this thread.

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Why not place armed guards at schools? Many people dont want teachers armed and I think thats fair but why not hire security for schools? Metal detectors/wands...not just anyone gets to walk through the doors without proper screening. Someone in this thread said noone needs a gun and people obviously disagree with that. Its our constitutional right. And believe it or not, there have been plenty of bad situations stopped because some normal person with a gun stopped it. Im a nurse and I have coworkers who I know have concealed weapons permits that carry at work and it makes me feel a lot safer!! Hollywood celebrities, musicians, the government allllll are guarded by ARMED security, why not give the same to our kids?

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