School Shootings

davsd · May 23, 2018

As a person who has had guns all of my life, shot guns and has a concealed permit, has shot competitively, and my whole family has and shoots various types of guns, I am saddened each time this comes up. I am also saddened that you chose to take this forum into an area that it absolutely does not need to go. I signed up for this forum because I thought it was a forum for nursing discussions, not legislation discussions (which is exactly where you are taking this by "printing out and sending to the Governor".).

I hear people say "more regulation, less guns, nobody needs a gun, nobody needs X gun," etc.

I am careful with my guns and I have never had a mishap, lost a gun, been careless, or had any issues. I am conscientious about abiding by laws in terms of concealed carry (like hospitals who state they are gun free) and I am appalled that people feel the need to take anything away from me. I have been fully fingerprinted, fully vetted, have had a more intense background check that any with any employer (including the hospital) I have ever worked for. My guns are already registered when I buy them. Why should I have to pay an extra tax, why should I have to have more regulation in my life? I have done NOTHING wrong.

I hear people in stores and open areas say that "it is easy to spot a person with a concealed weapon - they are all psycho'" while I am standing right next to them and just inwardly think of how much more safe they are since I am trained and could possibly stop an attack.

I have been assaulted in the past and will never allow myself to be a victim again, that is why I have a carry permit - it is not because I am a "gun nut," or "out to prove something."

There are already laws against underage people getting certain types of guns (i.e. handguns), there are laws against sawed off shotguns, laws against felons owning or being in a home with guns, etc. but they are not stopping this. What am I most in favor of? Actually abiding by, arresting and severely punishing those who break current laws and ensuring that threats are taken seriously.

I am all for more mental illness treatment, all for stopping bullying, all for community centers, all for after school activities, all for getting kids off the internet and out doing something, all for having kids volunteer, all for ensuring that my guns do not end up in the hands of the wrong people, all for wanding in schools, all for guards and allowing teachers to carry if they are FULLY TRAINED and feel safe to do so.

When my grandchild visits or other children visit my home I ensure that all of the guns are secure and that the parents are aware of guns in the house.

I know I am in the minority on this page and I respect others' opinions, but I just ask the same level of respect in return.

OldDude · May 23, 2018

Why make a thread asking for ideas without criticism?
Making about a hot topic and then telling people you just want people to agree with you says something...

I made the thread so I'm assuming you're talking about me...from my Post.

"I am requesting genuine input. Sarcasm and political attacks are not welcome. If you don't have a contribution you think would be helpful, please don't."

I don't make the connection...otherwise, thank you for your input. I have always been a proponent of local control.

leannemeier · May 23, 2018

I know this is too obvious a comment, but since I hear NO ONE mention it, I will. Is there any possibility if seeking out these side-lined, or bullied kids and create a group to help them digest there personal situations and learn tools to deal with it. Knowing that at any given moment, this could describe ANY High School kid, maybe our curriculum must include this for all.

It seemed in the 80s and 90s, there was a lot of talk about training peaceful talk and action in school. What ever happened to those kids? Did it help? Did they remember and use it?

I wish you well. You school nurses had a tough job before. Now, WOW!

I do an International talk show on Mondays, called "Once a Nurse, Always a Nurse..." Online at: VoiceAmerica.com, then Health and Wellness. Would you be interested in being on it? Contact me at [email protected] if interested.

sswinner · May 23, 2018

11c. You can take my weapons out of my cold and dead hands.

That being said.. We have lots of laws on the weapons, but the enforcement is lacking. So many warnings ignored.

How can we truly make something illegal whilst we have some politicians celebrating other illegal activities.

I am somewhat "thankful" they use guns. It means they are too stupid to use Google. You think ied's are hard to make? Most of us travel in one every day.

Guns? The only thing saving greater tragedies is instant gratification and stupidity.

CFitzRN, ADN · May 23, 2018

No one needs a gun.

Rhetoric like that doesn't help. There are something like 300 million guns in the US, so even if all law-abiding gun owners turned over their firearms, there would still be tens of millions of guns out there, and unarmed citizens would be at the mercy of armed criminals. I have firearms that I've been trained to use, and I store them securely and safely, while also having quick access to them should I need to defend myself or my family. The way things are now, banning guns would do nothing except ensure that only criminals have firearms.

OldDude · May 23, 2018

... I am also saddened that you chose to take this forum into an area that it absolutely does not need to go. I signed up for this forum because I thought it was a forum for nursing discussions, not legislation discussions (which is exactly where you are taking this by "printing out and sending to the Governor".)

To answer this...from my post.

"So here is the relevance of my post to "allnurses." Nurses are, probably, the most accomplished and innovative, critical thinking, problems solving, life saving, "git-er-done," people on the planet. It appears "the experts" have contributed only to reliving the definition of insanity in regard to school shooting; doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Sometimes it takes someone from the outside looking in to find the golden key.

I am requesting genuine input. Sarcasm and political attacks are not welcome...."

You offered up legitimate and insightful comments. Thank You

Flatline, BSN, RN · May 23, 2018

Controlling guns to control school murder is like trying to manage sepsis by only managing the fever.

I am sure everyone has heard the flippant remarks about banning spoons to reduce obesity, as silly as it sounds it really is the same kind of idea.

I honestly do not know what the solution is but I know gun control and metal detectors are not it. Keep in mind that the worst school tragedy was by a bomb...

I suspect that a greater focus on child mental health within the school and home may be far more effective than simply forcing a kid to decide between a handgun or a bomb. Cure the disease instead of trying to manage the symptoms.

davsd · May 23, 2018

Thank you for pointing out to me again why you started this thread - I can understand your thought process a little better now.

I know it is hard to get constructive, thoughtful feedback and I appreciate where you are going with this. There are a lot of comments about people not needing guns and I apologize if I let that get a little under my skin. I think it is just hard to have this conversation and not have someone feel attacked.

I am reading a lot of good ideas in the thread though and I am glad for that.

OldDude · May 23, 2018

Thank you for pointing out to me again why you started this thread - I can understand your thought process a little better now.
I know it is hard to get constructive, thoughtful feedback and I appreciate where you are going with this. There are a lot of comments about people not needing guns and I apologize if I let that get a little under my skin. I think it is just hard to have this conversation and not have someone feel attacked.
I am reading a lot of good ideas in the thread though and I am glad for that.

I understand. This is a volatile subject. I have my opinions, I have a state license to carry a handgun, I would possess a concealed weapon on my person at school if the law allowed, there are many people of the same opinion and there are many people with differing opinions...so, If one iota of information from this thread was used in the mix to move school safety in a positive direction the thread was a success and a sign the contributors, regardless of opinion, "DID" something. :up:

cov1dea, CNA · May 23, 2018

I grew up in a country where guns are readily available, but there is no mass shooting. When there is a mass murder, it's usually the people who have a Muslim background bomb our malls or public areas. How would I(we) know? They obviously admit their committed crimes. Our authority struggles to arrest those perpetrators; our military and police end up dying in the battle to catch them. We do have crimes related to guns, and so much more. However, in schools, so far, there is none because our security guards check backpacks and pockets in and out.

Maybe, if Americans can afford to pay for the fraudsters or stupid experiments, they can afford to hire security guards in all schools. It's a good job to be created.

amycire · May 23, 2018

There are a lot of underlying issues that have nothing to do with taking away guns. Bullying in schools, mental health, parents not being involved in their children's lives, unacceptable behavior at school being allowed to continue etc... I do have a right to own a gun. For protection, hunting, sport etc... it is our right and I'll be damned if someone going to take that away. I have a right to protect my family and myself. There are other attacks in schools that are from stabbings, acid, etc... people run people down with cars. It's not the weapon of choice that is the issue, it's the person behind it. Now I'm all for some changes when it comes to the gun laws. Background checks need to improve, if you have depression, anger issues, attempted suicide etc.. than you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun, parents need to keep theirs secured, but just like criminals find guns, so can anyone else. You can even go on Craigslist and buy a gun.

broughden · May 23, 2018

I get what you are saying, I really do. The part that always hangs me up is that people like to hang on "gun violence" instead of overall murder. Doesn't matter to the victim whether they are shot, stabbed, run over, or blown up does it?
I also do not like comparing country to country given the shear size of the United States. I laugh when people compare Australia to the U.S. considering Australia is smaller than Texas, a single state in the Union so in reality the best comparison is population to population.
Personally I think a great measure to look at is intentional homicide rate by population which gives a better overall number to work with when it comes to murder. When you factor in the population and look at intentional homicide which includes all of the creative ways people kill each other then the picture changes.
Mental health is not my specialty but I assume more sane individuals do not murder a bunch of people? I could be wrong through. When I refer to mental health I am also not referring to just chronic conditions but acute episodes as well, again not a mental health specialist.

A) Because its EASIER to kill lots of people very quickly with a gun than chasing them a round with a knife. Which is why most mass "stabbings" have far fewer mortalities, if any at all. Strange how these tools designed to kill things are really efficient at....killing things?

B) There is this thing called statistics, where you can evaluate and compare information between different population sizes based on the "per capita" rate. We use it in health care as well. Its what allows us to compare the US to Australia or any other country. Its why instead of laughing you should take a refresher course in stats.

C) You are wrong. Anger is the most common cause of murder and its not a diagnosable mental illness.

Again....its like some people live in another world.