School Shootings

[OldDude]

Yet another tragic loss of innocent life today in Santa Fe, Texas. Yet again! As a school nurse, and one who is close to your children and my children, every day during school, these senseless losses tear at my heart...and yet again, it happened today - again.

So here is the relevance of my post to "allnurses." Nurses are, probably, the most accomplished and innovative, critical thinking, problems solving, life saving, "git-er-done," people on the planet. It appears "the experts" have contributed only to reliving the definition of insanity in regard to school shooting; doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Sometimes it takes someone from the outside looking in to find the golden key.

I am requesting your ideas, recommendations, suggestions, thoughts, etc., regarding what you think would prevent future school shootings; as you would a head to toe assessment, identification, and intervention of your patient, so to speak. Or from any other relationship you have to school age children.

I am requesting genuine input. Sarcasm and political attacks are not welcome. If you don't have a contribution you think would be helpful, please don't.

If this turns out how I'm hoping it will, I intend to print the entire thread and mail it to the Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott; opinions from nurses from around the world - how to stop the insanity of school shootings!

Thank you!

[OldDude]

I am curious about your qualifications to handle a weapon in a combat situation. Military veteran, ex police? How do you keep your skills high enough to engage in live fire around children? What would your plan be as far as carrying and securing the weapon in a school? Open or concealed? Or locked up?

I can tell you that in my state, getting a concealed weapons permit in no way qualified me to engage in combat in public. The first go around required me to prove my ability to write a check. Then, the laws got stricter and it is now a requirement to sit in a class that nobody has ever failed. Then write a check.

You my well be highly qualified in this regard, if so, what do you feel the minimum level of qualification should be for a school employee? Obviously simply owning a gun and and having a permit isn't enough. Trivia question: Which state allows blind people to concealed carry?

The current administration is certainly in favor of the idea of arming teachers. There is a rumor Sean Simpson may be nominated to head up the task force.

Excellent points, which, to me reinforce how complex this subject really is. Remember, this thread is gonna end up in the Texas Governor's office. It'd be cool if he could actually read this stuff. I think every opinion should be heard and put in the mix. Thank you!

[kitty29]

I also think the time has come for Real security in our schools. I support the 2nd amendment. ..not sure more gun restrictions will help...But I am concerned with the ease those who are intent on harm can get tools to do harm.

I believe on site security should be in all schools. Any teacher who wishes to be taught and carry should do so. They should not be known. I think many teachers might already carry. Good!

Apparently there are bullet proof doors. Schools should have them. Limited entery into schools. No more huge backpacks. No more open concept design in schools.

Mental health...no more dropping the ball. Real help and follow up......and No More Bullying ....no tolerance.

I actually have sent a list to my Senator got a reply and some things other than gun control ate being seriously considered.

[Amethya]

I believe the issue is a combination of all three, gun law, mental illness and bullying. For one, a lot of these shootings happen because the person gets access to guns when they shouldn't be, mental illness that was either over looked or ignored and possibly not getting the help needed and then the bullying, which kinda goes in hand with the mental illness.

If the person who owned the weapons had the guns and everything locked up completely or even if they went to buy them, there should be a background check before getting one.

Mental Illness or even mental help should be available for ALL students and I believe that's an issue we have in all schools where the academics is more important than the mentality of our students. I have advocated for more counselors and such in our school since my first year because all my students want to talk to someone but we do not have anyone on campus, who is a professional to help. We have only one for all our schools, who comes only once a week and she's busy with the cases she's given.

That goes hand-in-hand with the bullying too! I had so many issues with bullying in our schools and nothing is being done!

If nothing is changed, I'm worried my school can be next with shootings.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

First step needs to be stop the carnage. Only then can we take the time to analyze the why. Because analyzing the why is just too complicated for us to have the luxury of taking the time for yet more talking head debates that accomplish nothing. After we find a way to stop it, then take the time to figure out better long term solutions to prevent it.

I'd love to see some tougher gun laws. I am not by any means saying nobody should have a gun, but it does need to be harder to get one. Stop all gun shows, only buy/sell weapons through thoroughly vetted authorized retailers. Stop all sales of military grade "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines. Nobody needs these types of weapons for hunting or home protection, if you think you do you are not nearly skilled enough with a weapon to be set loose in the forest with a gun anyway.

I am all for returning to a world where "troubled" kids were not mainstreamed into classes with kids that want to go to school. When I was a kid classroom disruptions were just not allowed and kids that had discipline problems attended a different campus with much stricter rules and much more adult oversight. Kids might receive a second chance after disruptive behavior in school but they didn't get a third, fourth and fifth chance.

Bullies existed then, jut like they do now. Difference is bullies then couldn't crowd source their behavior through social media. When cell phones first started to become mainstream they weren't allowed in schools and that rule was strictly enforced. Get back to that and make school a device free zone.

We also had none of that include all the kids in activities crap, participating in the "fun" activities was an earned privilege, not a right. You wanted to be involved in school clubs and after school activities you earned the right to participate and not every kid made the team. More important not every kid got a trophy just for showing up and not every kid was a star.

It's easy and a bit of a cop out to blame the parents for a kids bad behavior. Not every kid that grows up with crappy parents becomes a criminal, not all kids that become criminals have crappy parents.

It's also time to stop blaming every mass shooting on mental health issues. Not every person that commits violent crime has a mental health problem, I would venture a guess that most violent crimes aren't perpetrated by people with mental health diagnoses. That kind of blame game doesn't help anybody.

[OldDude]

First step needs to be stop the carnage. Only then can we take the time to analyze the why. Because analyzing the why is just too complicated for us to have the luxury of taking the time for yet more talking head debates that accomplish nothing. After we find a way to stop it, then take the time to figure out better long term solutions to prevent it.

I'd love to see some tougher gun laws. I am not by any means saying nobody should have a gun, but it does need to be harder to get one. Stop all gun shows, only buy/sell weapons through thoroughly vetted authorized retailers. Stop all sales of military grade "assault rifles" and high capacity magazines. Nobody needs these types of weapons for hunting or home protection, if you think you do you are not nearly skilled enough with a weapon to be set loose in the forest with a gun anyway.

I am all for returning to a world where "troubled" kids were not mainstreamed into classes with kids that want to go to school. When I was a kid classroom disruptions were just not allowed and kids that had discipline problems attended a different campus with much stricter rules and much more adult oversight. Kids might receive a second chance after disruptive behavior in school but they didn't get a third, fourth and fifth chance.

Bullies existed then, jut like they do now. Difference is bullies then couldn't crowd source their behavior through social media. When cell phones first started to become mainstream they weren't allowed in schools and that rule was strictly enforced. Get back to that and make school a device free zone.

We also had none of that include all the kids in activities crap, participating in the "fun" activities was an earned privilege, not a right. You wanted to be involved in school clubs and after school activities you earned the right to participate and not every kid made the team. More important not every kid got a trophy just for showing up and not every kid was a star.

It's easy and a bit of a cop out to blame the parents for a kids bad behavior. Not every kid that grows up with crappy parents becomes a criminal, not all kids that become criminals have crappy parents.

It's also time to stop blaming every mass shooting on mental health issues. Not every person that commits violent crime has a mental health problem, I would venture a guess that most violent crimes aren't perpetrated by people with mental health diagnoses. That kind of blame game doesn't help anybody.

Thank you for your input.

[brownbook]

Parents who allow under 18 year olds access to guns and said child kills someone, the parent should be financially and legally responsible.

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

Really? How many of these shootings are being carried out by NRA members?

I"ll answer that for you-

Zero

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

This a very complex issue and the best solution will be a systemic and multi layered approach. I for sure don't have all the answers, but logically this is what we are looking at here. There have been school shootings for decades. This is not a new trend in this country. However, in the past 4 years or so the number of shootings has gone drastically up and in those shootings, the number of casualties has sky rocketed. The kids in generation Z as a whole, are deeply troubled. They have grown up obsessed with social media, violent video games, parents who have a very high chance they aren't even together and last but not least, are in a very polarized society. We have a real problem of perpetual victimization in this country. Everything is always everyone elses fault. It's not the kids fault they made the choice to kill 10 people, its the gun fault. Look at Parkland, that kid was bullied and the ones who bullied him..bully other people to not support companies who do business with the NRA. No one wants to take any responsibility for anything. Just have the govt make some more rules for society. I have very little faith in this generation in particular and although I personally am not a gun owner, I sure don't sweeping legislation and the govt involved because of a few bad apples and their irresponsible parents. These tracks have already been laid and that can't be undone. No gun laws would have prevented this shooting but guess what would have? Decent parents. Metal detectors. Parkland is an entirely different story, because that kid should have never owned a gun and if the police would have actually done their job, he would have had a criminal history given the 39 police visits to his house. Or maybe if the FBI would have investigated those MULTIPLE tips they received. How about Pulse? Maybe if the FBI wouldn't have dropped the ball than someone previously on a terror list, would not have been able to buy that kind of gun and ammunition.

Also, lets stop glamorizing these POS kids on the media outlets.

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

Mass shootings in America

2018: 133 shootings almost 200 dead

2017:427 shootings, over 500 dead

2016: 477 shootings and 580 dead

2015: 371 shootings and 480 dead

from here

You are correct, the statistic speak for itself. Gun control reduces the number of mass shootings.

Free and easy access to guns leads to statistics as seen above.

How many of those people who did the killings, are LEGAL gun owners?

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

100000000000% agree.

Everyone is a victim in this society because of something someone else did. Its the guns fault, its the cars fault because I drank and drive, its the food faults that I am obese and have diabetes, its the drugs fault that now I have hepatitis and I can't afford my medication because I can't get a job to get insurance. Ok rant over. AMERICA NEEDS TO START TAKING RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY!!!

[brownbook]

This a very complex issue and the best solution will be a systemic and multi layered approach. I for sure don't have all the answers, but logically this is what we are looking at here. There have been school shootings for decades. This is not a new trend in this country. However, in the past 4 years or so the number of shootings has gone drastically up and in those shootings, the number of casualties has sky rocketed. The kids in generation Z as a whole, are deeply troubled. They have grown up obsessed with social media, violent video games, parents who have a very high chance they aren't even together and last but not least, are in a very polarized society. We have a real problem of perpetual victimization in this country. Everything is always everyone elses fault. It's not the kids fault they made the choice to kill 10 people, its the gun fault. Look at Parkland, that kid was bullied and the ones who bullied him..bully other people to not support companies who do business with the NRA. No one wants to take any responsibility for anything.

Just have the govt make some more rules for society.

I have very little faith in this generation in particular and although I personally am not a gun owner, I sure don't sweeping legislation and the govt involved because of a few bad apples and their irresponsible parents. These tracks have already been laid and that can't be undone. No gun laws would have prevented this shooting but guess what would have? .

Australia's gun laws have reduced the homicide rate to its lowest since 1989-1990.

I do not believe America is the only country with troubled generation Z kids.

[Mini2544, ASN, RN]

Australia's gun laws have reduced the homicide rate to its lowest since 1989-1990.

I do not believe America is the only country with troubled generation Z kids.[/quote

I just don't see how Australia has anything to do with this conversation. Our two countries couldn't be more different. It's the original argument of blaming the guns or making these people and their parents take responsibility for the mess they created. Laws don't fix people. People fix people. I do think raising the age to 21 is necessary. 18 year olds as a whole are no where near responsible enough. Also no one needs AR type rifles. Unless they are in the military.