RN Jobs That Do Not Require Covid Vaccine

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Oct 25, 2021

23 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

"You all can keep pushing the "trust the science" crap for another 5 years. This narrative will not change the fact that many many discontinuities exist from the official position. We know about the discontinuities and they are being ignored by official sources while we are being told not to talk about it. We WILL keep talking about It."

What, specifically, are you referencing?

I'm not specifically referencing. I'm generally referencing. So many posts, tweets, videos, etc are being censored and erased. Somebody puts up an anecdotal reports online or many of them, or government panels where people report vaccine injury. These reports are dismissed by those who refuse to accept anything not from official sources. The VAERS data is routinely dismissed at meaningless until official sources rule on it as a significant finding. What is the inclusion criteria to rule in a vaccine injury as legitimate? I can't find anything. And if there's no specific diagnostic criteria to rule in a claim of vaccine injury, how do we know what the actual vaccine injury rate is? Also, for those who do have an injury, what are they going to do about it?

"McFadden, 44, said she was previously healthy and needed two emergency surgeries to remove massive clots in her lungs, heart and left leg. She spent nine days in the hospital, racking up $489,153 in medical bills, she said. Her insurance will cover most, but not all of the tab, she said, and she estimates she'll pay up to $7,000 out of pocket."

https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/covid-vaccine-injury-claims-mount-recourse-is-lacking-those-harmed-2021-10-19/

Who is to say this person would have every gotten covid, making the vaccine pointless anyway? But she got the Jansen vaccine and ended up with clots that certainly could have been fatal and massive hospital bills (luckily having insurance), something that was entirely avoidable. The potential risks are real and serious. Let's stop pretending "safe and effective" means we should take away pt autonomy. The risk is real. Only the individual should decide if the potential benefit is actually worth that risk.

londonflo · Oct 25, 2021

Tomascz

You posted this article as food for thought.

12 hours ago, Tomascz said:

Here's some food for thought out of Yale no less:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/fully-vaccinated-coronavirus/2021/10/21/d0f9a2d4-321b-11ec-93e2-dba2c2c11851_story.html

I provided my thoughts on it....no spit involved unless it is from you

3 hours ago, Tomascz said:

but spitting on each other, IMO, is not the best way to get there.

toomuchbaloney · Oct 25, 2021

1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

actually there is data to suggest you are wrong about viral load:

Logic and common sense suggest that over the term of an infection, the vaccinated but infected individual will have less replication and a diminished viral load as compared to an unvaccinated and infected individual.

1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

. The claim is, however, everyone needs to get vaccinated to stop the spread and keep others safe. This claim obviously suggests limiting spread (to claim that's not what it means is disingenuous). As you quoted, my actual question was "why is a vaccine necessary for all people regardless of demographic risk?" It's not beneficial to stop transmission in a meaningful way, it doesn't stop you from getting infected. All it does is decrease symptoms. Some people have low risk. Why are low risk individuals mandated to get vacinated or get fired when they have a low risk of serious symptoms?

A vaccine is necessary for the majority (all) in order to achieve vaccine mediated herd immunity. That is what we enjoy in the USA relative to polio, small pox, measles, etc.

People are losing their employment because they are choosing to remain unvaccinated in the presence of employer vaccine mandates. Those mandates are effective in increasing vaccine uptake among communities and populations of people. Gambling with a dangerous virus rather than accepting sage and effective vaccines based upon assumptions about individual risk seems unwise.

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Oct 25, 2021

22 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Logic and common sense suggest that over the term of an infection, the vaccinated but infected individual will have less replication and a diminished viral load as compared to an unvaccinated and infected individual.

A vaccine is necessary for the majority (all) in order to achieve vaccine mediated herd immunity. That is what we enjoy in the USA relative to polio, small pox, measles, etc.

People are losing their employment because they are choosing to remain unvaccinated in the presence of employer vaccine mandates. Those mandates are effective in increasing vaccine uptake among communities and populations of people. Gambling with a dangerous virus rather than accepting sage and effective vaccines based upon assumptions about individual risk seems unwise.

Perhaps logic and common sense can have a conversation with the virus and agree to disagree. LOL

Are you are suggesting the virus is equally deadly and dangerous for all people including those with very little risk?

LindaGracie, ADN, BSN · Oct 26, 2021

17 hours ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Risk 2) It's designed to produce spike protein on my own cells which makes them a target for my immune system. Risk 3) I don't know how long the spike protein continues to be produced and I've heard it becomes widely distributed throughout the body. If long term we won't know for a long time. I'm not okay with unknown long term risk. Risk 4) the most common symptom specific to vaccine I've heard reported is loss of taste and smell suggesting to me crossing the blood brain barrier. I'm concerned about auto immune processes in my central nervous system.

Hi 10GaugeNeedles, I am glad you shared your concerns. I thought the spike proteins produced by the vaccine was free floating rather than attached to the cells. I know that research on Pfizer indicates immunity wanes considerably (drops to around 50% if I remember correctly) so I assume the spike proteins are long gone by then. I hadn't heard that the vaccine caused loss of taste & smell but knew this was one of the symptoms of COVID but not everyone has a loss of taste and smell. A man who exposed me to COVID didn't loose his sense of smell or taste. (Fortunately I didn't get the bug) I can definitely understand younger people being more concerned about long-term effects especially when they are healthy with no recognized risk factors. However I just read today that the CDC is now listing mental illness as a risk factor for severe COVID. The article didn't explain what mental illness diagnosis or degree of severity puts a person at higher risk.

I agree with you, that people need to be able to share their concerns and talk about the vaccine in a positive and open manner. I know if this pandemic had occurred 35 years ago I wouldn't have been so enthusiastically jumping in line to get the vaccine because I had no risk factors back then. However as we age we tend to develop health problems and pick up a few medical diagnosis which may put us at greater risk. I think everyone needs to evaluate their own risk factors, risk factors of people they associate with on an ongoing basis as well as gathering as much information about the vaccine and the disease as they can. The information should come from reliable sources and from more than just a few research studies from a few researchers. Keep doing what you are doing to educate those around you. I think you are doing a great job in communicating with both sides A & B.

PMFB-RN, RN · Oct 26, 2021

On 10/16/2021 at 11:49 PM, TraumaRN52 said:

Quote

It's my body and my choice.

The irony of those demanding choice while gleefully depriving us of OUR choices about our bodies kills me.

Tomascz, ASN, RN · Oct 26, 2021

1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Perhaps logic and common sense can have a conversation with the virus and agree to disagree. LOL

Are you are suggesting the virus is equally deadly and dangerous for all people including those with very little risk?

She's not and you know she's not.
X % of the general population are at no, or very little risk, of death from this stupid bug. y% are. Do you know who they are? You want to bet their lives? Is that how you treat your patients?
Part of X [x] will end up with long term damage, so death isn't the only metric we're dealing with.
As far as I can tell, from MILLIONS of doses of vaccine given, only a minute number of people will have fatal reactions to the vaccines. No, I don't think it's certain who they are, even less so than those who comprise "y".
What I see here, in this thread, are a bunch of scared, self centered jerks who don't care about any of that.
Typhoid Mary got treated like crap, once they found her, but she killed a lot of people in her self righteous ignorance. She knew she was making people sick, but she didn't care. Medicine at the time had no cure so they locked her up for 26 yrs. I guess that sucked but being burned at the stake would have sucked worse. Letting her do whatever she wanted to do would have sucked a lot worse for a lot more people though.
Does it make sense to do whatever we can to stop the spread; even a little?

[ Just as an aside, I wonder what this discussion would look like on an EMT board? Those people actually have balls, and they've taken a bigger hit than nurses ever thought of taking]

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Oct 26, 2021

1 minute ago, Tomascz said:

She's not and you know she's not.
X % of the general population are at no, or very little risk, of death from this stupid bug. y% are. Do you know who they are? You want to bet their lives? Is that how you treat your patients?
Part of X [x] will end up with long term damage, so death isn't the only metric we're dealing with.
As far as I can tell, from MILLIONS of doses of vaccine given, only a minute number of people will have fatal reactions to the vaccines. No, I don't think it's certain who they are, even less so than those who comprise "y".
What I see here, in this thread, are a bunch of scared, self centered jerks who don't care about any of that.
Typhoid Mary got treated like crap, once they found her, but she killed a lot of people in her self righteous ignorance. She knew she was making people sick, but she didn't care. Medicine at the time had no cure so they locked her up for 26 yrs. I guess that sucked but being burned at the stake would have sucked worse. Letting her do whatever she wanted to do would have sucked a lot worse for a lot more people though.
Does it make sense to do whatever we can to stop the spread; even a little?

[ Just as an aside, I wonder what this discussion would look like on an EMT board? Those people actually have balls, and they've taken a bigger hit than nurses ever thought of taking]

This is the biggest misinformation from your side: "get vaxxed or you are risking infecting a bunch of people." This is simply false. After vaccination you are just as likely to spread the virus (possibly a slight decrease since once infected you will likely recover quicker), assuming you carry it, as anyone else. getting vaccinated does not limit spread. Getting vaccinated does not limit spread. Getting vaccinated does not limit spread. This has been stated by the CDC (thus the new recommendation to wear mask even after getting vaccinated). The only benefit I've seen specifically stated by official sources is limiting severe symptoms. This is not measles. This is not polio. The vaccine for this will not irradicate the virus like in the former cases. It mutates. Why are you acting like those who don't agree with you don't know anything? Try listening to the other side for once. You might actually learn something. The risk of vaccine injury is low. Correct. But it's REAL and serious. You dismiss it. Those who have suffered a serious vaccine injury don't matter to you, which is interesting. My risk of covid severe symptoms is low. I may never get infected. That means I have the potential to have ZERO risk. But if I get the vaccine, my risk is artificially higher. Thus the risk benefit in my case is in favor of no vaccine. You do you, I'll do me, we'll see what happens. I have every right to refuse any medical procedure. Period. That is the heart of medical ethics and it still applies whether you like it or not.

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Oct 26, 2021

43 minutes ago, LindaGracie said:

Hi 10GaugeNeedles, I am glad you shared your concerns. I thought the spike proteins produced by the vaccine was free floating rather than attached to the cells. I know that research on Pfizer indicates immunity wanes considerably (drops to around 50% if I remember correctly) so I assume the spike proteins are long gone by then. I hadn't heard that the vaccine caused loss of taste & smell but knew this was one of the symptoms of COVID but not everyone has a loss of taste and smell. A man who exposed me to COVID didn't loose his sense of smell or taste. (Fortunately I didn't get the bug) I can definitely understand younger people being more concerned about long-term effects especially when they are healthy with no recognized risk factors. However I just read today that the CDC is now listing mental illness as a risk factor for severe COVID. The article didn't explain what mental illness diagnosis or degree of severity puts a person at higher risk.

I agree with you, that people need to be able to share their concerns and talk about the vaccine in a positive and open manner. I know if this pandemic had occurred 35 years ago I wouldn't have been so enthusiastically jumping in line to get the vaccine because I had no risk factors back then. However as we age we tend to develop health problems and pick up a few medical diagnosis which may put us at greater risk. I think everyone needs to evaluate their own risk factors, risk factors of people they associate with on an ongoing basis as well as gathering as much information about the vaccine and the disease as they can. The information should come from reliable sources and from more than just a few research studies from a few researchers. Keep doing what you are doing to educate those around you. I think you are doing a great job in communicating with both sides A & B.

Yeah, the spike protein being stuck on the cell membrane was my first red flag. As an aside, given the low incidence of apparent vaccine injury, I agree with you, it does appear the protein production appears short lived (though it's hard to be certain). All things considered I'm not "afraid"of the vaccine as such. The main reason I don't want it is simply no percieved benefit vs exposing my self to an unnecessary risk. The Jansen is lower risk for men, the mrna lower risk for women so, if forced, I know which I'd choose.

As for the symptoms, almost all but not all of my fellow nurses that got the shot about a year ago reported loss of taste and smell (recovered soon after). But that's definitely not common with other vaccines as far as I know.

I hadn't heard of the mental illness thing being a risk factor. To me that just hurts the credibility. I mean, it sounds like statistical magic sauce to conclude that. Weird.

If there was demonstrated clear evidence of significant benefit, I'd be on board with this. But there's just SO much weirdness, like a disconnect from reports and results. I'm hoping now that delta is starting to burn away this whole thing will eventually blow over. Thanks for your kind and reasonable comments.

Tomascz, ASN, RN · Oct 26, 2021

The problem is you work with sick people who pose a lot of risk, to you and everyone else. If you've had Covid and you're doing OK now, good onya, but you have no right to expose others as an unprotected carrier. That's where good PPE and diligent infection control come in.
I fully support your right to refuse anything in terms of medical treatment that you believe can or might harm you, but you don't have the right to expose others willfully because that deprives them of choice.
Personally I've taken my chances with one of the mRNA vaccines over hanging out barefaced in a covid ward for a few hours hoping to snag enough virus to get me into the blessed herd, because I am very specifically at risk, but I like what I do.
What would really kill me is if I gave this sh*t to someone else, especially my partner of 45 yrs and the mother of my daughters who have all had to make up their own minds about what they were willing to do.
I'm still pretty cautious and I still resent the h*ll out of people who think they have a god given right to inoculate the air we share at Walmart.

Tomascz, ASN, RN · Oct 26, 2021

If we had a cheap accurate and fast dipstick for this it would solve a lot of problems. And yes, I am not unaware of the weirdness. Some days I just want to walk away.
I did for 10 months until I could get at least a little bit of a leg up. I know the vaccines are a long way from perfect but.... I took the risk. I had Zero side effects from 3 doses which actually concerns me a little.

10GaugeNeedles, BSN · Oct 26, 2021

45 minutes ago, Tomascz said:

If we had a cheap accurate and fast dipstick for this it would solve a lot of problems. And yes, I am not unaware of the weirdness. Some days I just want to walk away.
I did for 10 months until I could get at least a little bit of a leg up. I know the vaccines are a long way from perfect but.... I took the risk. I had Zero side effects from 3 doses which actually concerns me a little.

Why did you get 3 doses?