RN Graduate Establishes Dominance

WKShadowNP, DNP, APRN · Sep 22, 2016

GN status is dissolved after your first nclex attempt. Either you pass and you are an RN or you fail and you are a general citizen until you pass the nclex. She's unlicensed assistive personnel. If she acts like anything more she is out of line. She is not a nurse.

This is what I was thinking, too.

la_chica_suerte85, BSN, RN · Sep 22, 2016

Um, well, if she failed the NCLEX 5 times and graduated 6 YEARS AGO, I'm not surprised that she knows nothing. Also, she's not a graduate anymore as others have said.

Based on your post I would say that you are indeed way too much in your head about RN vs. LPN. It's true that the RN is in a supervisory position over you but SHE IS NOT AN RN and, therefore, YOU as the person with the LICENSE are in a supervisory position over her. I understand wanting to have someone that has your back and that can, over time, become a very skilled and capable asset to you and the doc's office. I don't think, however, this obvious lunatic is the person who can do that for you. Perhaps, because the workload has been so heavy for you and your Dr and NP know it, they just hired someone who seemed ok to do the work. But, a major "come to Jesus" moment is in order.

By the way, if it helps, I think you should re-frame this situation as if this was an entirely different work setting. Say, for instance, you guys are working in a luxury retail store (sorry, I worked in retail prior and it's all I knew) and, your boss knows that staffing is incredibly tight and they need to hire someone ASAP before the holidays start. You're exhausted and you're excited that one of the managers at another store (which is totally not at all related to the store you work at) recommends someone to you that was awesome and great and will be a fantastic asset and can take over for you as you prepare to start working elsewhere because you're in nursing school. You've already been there for 6 years and have invested a lot of your time in trying to make this particular brand a heavy-hitter in the center you work at so there's some pride there and you look forward to having someone come in to take over and continue on what you started.

So, this new person starts and they are the complete opposite of what that manager (who now mysteriously has been fired from their job at their store) claimed they were. It's a nightmare and they behave exactly as the "RN Graduate" above acts. There are constant errors on the register and inventory mistakes and things that need to be constantly fixed and mistakes that someone who worked anywhere in any retail setting would not be making. But, you don't really have any perceived authority over this person because they were hired into the same position as you because they were supposed to take over. It's weird. You don't know what to do or what to say but it's just getting worse and it stays worse for a year and a half until she finally does something stupid enough to get herself immediately terminated, much to the relief of everyone at the store (except now staffing is short again).

The only difference between my story and yours is that you actually do have legal, licensed authority over this loon and, I really think you should bring it up to, at a minimum, the NP. This person could quickly become dangerous and is not a good fit at all. You need to speak up to someone as soon as you can. You never know, maybe other people are seeing how insane she acts and they're just riding out the probationary period.

Good luck. I hope your story ends better than mine did.

AutumnApple · Sep 22, 2016

Your problem is with your otherbco-workers, not her. Not what you expected to hear is it?

You said she is making these comments to them. Is this a suspicion or confirmed? If it is true, ask yourself: Why did she feel comfortable making such statements to them? And what was their response?

If it's been occurring often enough that the same individuals have been approached by her multiple times apparently the culture is such that her remarks are welcome.

She did this with a superior if I read your post right. Let them worry about her. Your focus should be keeping your nose clean. If they are smart they will see her for what she is and the problem will hopefully be addressed. If not, have a private conversation with her about it. Be compassionate and remember, this is probably nothing more than a case of poor coping skills. Her ego is bruised and being redirected, even when it is necessary and right, just bruises the ego more. Come from the place of an ally or concerned Co worker, not from the viewpoint of a foe.

djh123 · Sep 22, 2016

I am no genius, but failing the NCLEX 5 times is not exactly a vote of confidence for this person. As others are saying, YOU are the one who passed a test and have the experience. I can't really offer a solution, but I hope you find one.

FolksBtrippin, BSN, RN · Sep 22, 2016

Can you have a conversation with the NP and surgeon about this? I think she needs to go.

**NICU Guy, BSN, RN** · Sep 22, 2016

You need to put her in her place before it gets any more out of hand. You both need to understand the hierarchy. RN-> LPN->UAP. You are an LPN and she in unlicensed personnel. You need to ignore that she graduated from an RN program, it is irrelevant, she is not an RN. She make think that graduating from a RN program gives her a higher standing than you, but it doesn't.

NuGuyNurse2b · Sep 23, 2016

I worked with someone like this. in fact, she didn't even graduate from nursing school, she flunked out. and when I tell you she was bitter with a capital B...

that woman stayed there way longer than should've been allowed. we all celebrated when she moved and became someone else's nightmare. if that office has any clue, they'd get rid of her while they can. cause the longer she stays, the more miserable she'll be and misery loves company. she will make everyone miserable.

AtLeastMyDogLovesMe · Sep 23, 2016

Hello fellow Nurses!
I am in need of some advice and alternate opinions. I am experiencing difficulty making a decision on what to do. The situation is as follows:
I am an LPN working for a General Surgeon and Nurse Practitioner. I am the only clinical employee in the office; so, needless to say, the work load is WAY too much. They recently hired a medical assistant for me to help. I was so excited to have a partner/coworker; and, even more excited to have a Graduate Nurse from an RN associates program. She graduated six years ago; however, she is not licensed. She failed the NCLEX five times and decided she was done trying. This was the reason she gave in the interview for not becoming licensed, "Family is more important to me and I didn't want to work RN hours." At first, I was perplexed but thought that maybe life handed her some higher priorities. Now I know she lied about it. I wouldn't have thought any different of her had she told me the truth. I guess I am rambling so I will get straight to the point. She has made multiple comments to me, the providers and the my other coworkers about her superiority compared to my LPN status. She has tried to tell me how to do my job ( mind you it is only her second week working ). She will cut me off mid-sentence when trying to teach her how to do something in order to let me know she is already aware of how to do it; however, she does it incorrectly. There are so many other things this person has done that disappoint me greatly. I would never ever disrespect a fellow RN or LPN and I have never been treated as a lesser equal by those RN's I have worked for. It is quite the contrary: They have asked me for help/advice in areas I was more knowledgeable in and vice-versa. Friends are telling me I need to assert my authority right away but I am a very passive person. Plus, I really wanted my assistant and I to have a great working relationship. Like police partners...sharing the load and having each others backs. I guess I am hesitant to assert my authority because I do respect her for graduating from RN school (even though she is not an RN, Not even a certified medical assistant) I know it is drilled into LPN's during school to always report to their RN;so, maybe that is why I am lacking in putting my foot down. Maybe in my mind she has some authority over me??? I am a bit surprised in the lack of her basic nursing knowledge for a graduate nurse, for example: not knowing what warfarin was, or knowing that Mycin antibiotics are not Penicillins. ( Maybe those are just some things she forgot right? I mean....I don't remember everything ) I feel so indecisive and confused. I guess what I really want to know is this:
Would I be in the wrong for treating her like a medical assistant and not a graduate nurse?
I gave her my trust and the privileges of a graduate nurse but now I am thinking the better of it. She doesn't respect me at all and has made that quite clear. I am so bummed out. Any suggestions, reassurance, advice or opinions would be MUCH APPRECIATED!
-Nic

She's overcompensating because she feels inferior...

Ruby Vee, BSN · Sep 23, 2016

Hello fellow Nurses!
I am in need of some advice and alternate opinions. I am experiencing difficulty making a decision on what to do. The situation is as follows:
I am an LPN working for a General Surgeon and Nurse Practitioner. I am the only clinical employee in the office; so, needless to say, the work load is WAY too much. They recently hired a medical assistant for me to help. I was so excited to have a partner/coworker; and, even more excited to have a Graduate Nurse from an RN associates program. She graduated six years ago; however, she is not licensed. She failed the NCLEX five times and decided she was done trying. This was the reason she gave in the interview for not becoming licensed, "Family is more important to me and I didn't want to work RN hours." At first, I was perplexed but thought that maybe life handed her some higher priorities. Now I know she lied about it. I wouldn't have thought any different of her had she told me the truth. I guess I am rambling so I will get straight to the point. She has made multiple comments to me, the providers and the my other coworkers about her superiority compared to my LPN status. She has tried to tell me how to do my job ( mind you it is only her second week working ). She will cut me off mid-sentence when trying to teach her how to do something in order to let me know she is already aware of how to do it; however, she does it incorrectly. There are so many other things this person has done that disappoint me greatly. I would never ever disrespect a fellow RN or LPN and I have never been treated as a lesser equal by those RN's I have worked for. It is quite the contrary: They have asked me for help/advice in areas I was more knowledgeable in and vice-versa. Friends are telling me I need to assert my authority right away but I am a very passive person. Plus, I really wanted my assistant and I to have a great working relationship. Like police partners...sharing the load and having each others backs. I guess I am hesitant to assert my authority because I do respect her for graduating from RN school (even though she is not an RN, Not even a certified medical assistant) I know it is drilled into LPN's during school to always report to their RN;so, maybe that is why I am lacking in putting my foot down. Maybe in my mind she has some authority over me??? I am a bit surprised in the lack of her basic nursing knowledge for a graduate nurse, for example: not knowing what warfarin was, or knowing that Mycin antibiotics are not Penicillins. ( Maybe those are just some things she forgot right? I mean....I don't remember everything ) I feel so indecisive and confused. I guess what I really want to know is this:
Would I be in the wrong for treating her like a medical assistant and not a graduate nurse?
I gave her my trust and the privileges of a graduate nurse but now I am thinking the better of it. She doesn't respect me at all and has made that quite clear. I am so bummed out. Any suggestions, reassurance, advice or opinions would be MUCH APPRECIATED!
-Nic

Your header is wrong. This woman isn't an RN; she hasn't passed the NCLEX. In fact, you've demonstrated ample evidence of why she's failed five times. She lacks basic nursing knowledge. She has no authority over you -- you are a nurse; she's unlicensed. Therefore you are supervising HER, not the other way around.

Is she even a qualified Medical assistant? Don't they have to take a program and demonstrate some knowledge? I'm asking this because I don't know, but it's something that you should either know or be able to find out.

Do not allow this person to disrespect you. You're the nurse, not her and you're the senior employee. Write her up when she screws up. Are you responsible for orienting her to the job? Make sure her performance evaluation accurately reflects the issues you're having. You cannot be a passive person here -- stand up for yourself and for what is right. If you continue to "be a very passive person", this gal will run roughshod right over you. That may be OK with you, but it's not promising for the safety of your patients.

TriciaJ, RN · Sep 23, 2016

Everyone made really excellent points. Stop thinking of her as a nurse; she isn't. If you consider yourself a passive person, you have to know by now that was never going to work for you as a nurse. You have to be able to advocate for yourself, as well as for your patients. And not just because of the occasional hiring mistake.

Yes, you definitely need to discuss this with your superiors. You need to show them a log of this person's transgressions and explain to them how she could very well cost them money and their reputation. (They don't care how she's making you feel; you have to show them what's in it for them.)

At the very least, with their input, you need to develop a specific work plan for this individual to follow during her probationary period. You have to assert your authority as a nurse, and it has to be made very clear to her that without a license she isn't one. Period. This isn't even a little bit of a grey area.

Do not allow her to squeak past her probation without a major improvement in all areas. Good luck.

SororAKS, ADN, RN · Sep 23, 2016

Unlicensed? I don't care if she's completed an Associates degree program. No license is no license. I'm a bit mystified as to why she was hired in the first place.

quazar · Sep 23, 2016

Your header is wrong. This woman isn't an RN; she hasn't passed the NCLEX. In fact, you've demonstrated ample evidence of why she's failed five times. She lacks basic nursing knowledge. She has no authority over you -- you are a nurse; she's unlicensed. Therefore you are supervising HER, not the other way around.
Is she even a qualified Medical assistant? Don't they have to take a program and demonstrate some knowledge? I'm asking this because I don't know, but it's something that you should either know or be able to find out.
Do not allow this person to disrespect you. You're the nurse, not her and you're the senior employee. Write her up when she screws up. Are you responsible for orienting her to the job? Make sure her performance evaluation accurately reflects the issues you're having. You cannot be a passive person here -- stand up for yourself and for what is right. If you continue to "be a very passive person", this gal will run roughshod right over you. That may be OK with you, but it's not promising for the safety of your patients.

Yes, yes, yes to all of this. I'm quoting it because it needs repeating. Please, stand up for yourself and check this unlicensed, unprofessional, totally out of line person. Do not kow tow to her, she is NOT your superior. She is dangerous to you because she is under your license, and she is a danger to patients.