RN Graduate Establishes Dominance

AutumnApple · Sep 23, 2016

Yes, yes, yes to all of this. I'm quoting it because it needs repeating. Please, stand up for yourself and check this unlicensed, unprofessional, totally out of line person. Do not kow tow to her, she is NOT your superior. She is dangerous to you because she is under your license, and she is a danger to patients.

In my area, hospitals have stopped letting RNs work at the facility as a nurse aid if they fail boards. They are pretty much let go and told "Better luck next time, re apply if you pass."

It's people like this who made them go that direction.

Horseshoe, BSN, RN · Sep 23, 2016

In my area, hospitals have stopped letting RNs work at the facility as a nurse aid if they fail boards. They are pretty much let go and told "Better luck next time, re apply if you pass."
It's people like this who made them go that direction.

I think you mean new graduates. They cannot be RNs if they haven't passed NCLEX.

roser13, ASN, RN · Sep 23, 2016

OP, I hope that you come back & update us.

Shellaaay10x · Sep 24, 2016

There's a lot of comments on here, but I would like to comment as well. Before I became an LVN I was a certified medical assistant. Yes I passed California boards and I am proud of it. However, because of my title, I would only work in my scope of practice and never ever disrespect or put authority over others that are clearly licensed professionals. I worked as a MA at an outpatient surgical center in PACU and Pre op for a few years, and I worked great with the RNs. I assisted with everything they needed, and in return they would help me out also (there were a few RNs who would sit around the nurses station and just talk, not helping as if they are beyond helping stock or clean...which are basic duties. There were only 2 MAs and about 8 RNs...if there are no patients PLEASE help.) Anyways, there would be new grad RNs or LVNs not knowing the procedures in PACU...or which doctors would yell at you if you asked for help, so that's when I would help them orient to make work a little more efficient. They were mostly very kind and thanked me. However, as far as clinical duties, I never acted as if I knew more, or did more than my scope. All in all, RNs/LVNs are licensed...and I am not getting my butt burned if something wrong happens to the patients! All in all, she should still respect you because you obviously went to school, passed your NCLEX, and are licensed. She is not. I don't care if she went to RN school. She did not pass her NCLEX, therefore she is not an RN and has no authority over you.

Shellaaay10x · Sep 24, 2016

Oh yes and I will also add, that most of the RNs I were with treated me as a colleague, just with different duties. They did not put me down because I was an MA, they respected me as their fellow coworker and we all relied on each other. I am just saying this because I don't want other nurses on here to think they are better than UAP's, the difference is that YOU are in the supervisory roll. I'm glad that you were initially excited to have somebody to work with, however I am sorry she is not working well with you!

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Sep 25, 2016

Your problem is with your otherbco-workers, not her. Not what you expected to hear is it?
You said she is making these comments to them. Is this a suspicion or confirmed? If it is true, ask yourself: Why did she feel comfortable making such statements to them? And what was their response?
If it's been occurring often enough that the same individuals have been approached by her multiple times apparently the culture is such that her remarks are welcome.
She did this with a superior if I read your post right. Let them worry about her. Your focus should be keeping your nose clean. If they are smart they will see her for what she is and the problem will hopefully be addressed. If not, have a private conversation with her about it. Be compassionate and remember, this is probably nothing more than a case of poor coping skills. Her ego is bruised and being redirected, even when it is necessary and right, just bruises the ego more. Come from the place of an ally or concerned Co worker, not from the viewpoint of a foe.

Can you give an example of how to redirect without bruising the ego? How to be an ally or concerned coworker?

For that matter, everyone who has suggested that the OP assert herself or try various techniques - it would really help if you could give an example or two.

Thanks

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Sep 25, 2016

There's a lot of comments on here, but I would like to comment as well. Before I became an LVN I was a certified medical assistant. Yes I passed California boards and I am proud of it. However, because of my title, I would only work in my scope of practice and never ever disrespect or put authority over others that are clearly licensed professionals. I worked as a MA at an outpatient surgical center in PACU and Pre op for a few years, and I worked great with the RNs. I assisted with everything they needed, and in return they would help me out also (there were a few RNs who would sit around the nurses station and just talk, not helping as if they are beyond helping stock or clean...which are basic duties. There were only 2 MAs and about 8 RNs...if there are no patients PLEASE help.) Anyways, there would be new grad RNs or LVNs not knowing the procedures in PACU...or which doctors would yell at you if you asked for help, so that's when I would help them orient to make work a little more efficient. They were mostly very kind and thanked me. However, as far as clinical duties, I never acted as if I knew more, or did more than my scope. All in all, RNs/LVNs are licensed...and I am not getting my butt burned if something wrong happens to the patients! All in all, she should still respect you because you obviously went to school, passed your NCLEX, and are licensed. She is not. I don't care if she went to RN school. She did not pass her NCLEX, therefore she is not an RN and has no authority over you.

Did you ask for help when you needed it?

caliotter3 · Sep 25, 2016

Your header is wrong. This woman isn't an RN; she hasn't passed the NCLEX. In fact, you've demonstrated ample evidence of why she's failed five times. She lacks basic nursing knowledge. She has no authority over you -- you are a nurse; she's unlicensed. Therefore you are supervising HER, not the other way around.
Is she even a qualified Medical assistant? Don't they have to take a program and demonstrate some knowledge? I'm asking this because I don't know, but it's something that you should either know or be able to find out.
Do not allow this person to disrespect you. You're the nurse, not her and you're the senior employee. Write her up when she screws up. Are you responsible for orienting her to the job? Make sure her performance evaluation accurately reflects the issues you're having. You cannot be a passive person here -- stand up for yourself and for what is right. If you continue to "be a very passive person", this gal will run roughshod right over you. That may be OK with you, but it's not promising for the safety of your patients.

I would hate to think that this person may do something seriously wrong to a patient and that you, in your capacity of the person with a nursing license, get blamed for not intervening and preventing a bad outcome. Exert yourself now before things get worse; and things will get worse.

Kooky Korky, BSN, RN · Sep 25, 2016

Hello fellow Nurses!
I am in need of some advice and alternate opinions. I am experiencing difficulty making a decision on what to do. The situation is as follows:
I am an LPN working for a General Surgeon and Nurse Practitioner. I am the only clinical employee in the office; so, needless to say, the work load is WAY too much. They recently hired a medical assistant for me to help. I was so excited to have a partner/coworker; and, even more excited to have a Graduate Nurse from an RN associates program. She graduated six years ago; however, she is not licensed. She failed the NCLEX five times and decided she was done trying. This was the reason she gave in the interview for not becoming licensed, "Family is more important to me and I didn't want to work RN hours." At first, I was perplexed but thought that maybe life handed her some higher priorities. Now I know she lied about it. I wouldn't have thought any different of her had she told me the truth.
I guess I am rambling so I will get straight to the point. She has made multiple comments to me, the providers and the my other coworkers about her superiority compared to my LPN status. She has tried to tell me how to do my job ( mind you it is only her second week working ). She will cut me off mid-sentence when trying to teach her how to do something in order to let me know she is already aware of how to do it; however, she does it incorrectly.
There are so many other things this person has done that disappoint me greatly. I would never ever disrespect a fellow RN or LPN and I have never been treated as a lesser equal by those RN's I have worked for. It is quite the contrary: They have asked me for help/advice in areas I was more knowledgeable in and vice-versa. Friends are telling me I need to assert my authority right away but I am a very passive person. Plus, I really wanted my assistant and I to have a great working relationship. Like police partners...sharing the load and having each others backs.
I guess I am hesitant to assert my authority because I do respect her for graduating from RN school (even though she is not an RN, Not even a certified medical assistant) I know it is drilled into LPN's during school to always report to their RN;so, maybe that is why I am lacking in putting my foot down. Maybe in my mind she has some authority over me??? I am a bit surprised in the lack of her basic nursing knowledge for a graduate nurse, for example: not knowing what warfarin was, or knowing that Mycin antibiotics are not Penicillins. ( Maybe those are just some things she forgot right? I mean....I don't remember everything ) I feel so indecisive and confused. I guess what I really want to know is this:
Would I be in the wrong for treating her like a medical assistant and not a graduate nurse?
I gave her my trust and the privileges of a graduate nurse but now I am thinking the better of it. She doesn't respect me at all and has made that quite clear. I am so bummed out. Any suggestions, reassurance, advice or opinions would be MUCH APPRECIATED!
-Nic

Did you hire her?

When she cuts you off, stop her. Tell her you want her to hear you out and remind her that you do not cut her off.

Let her know she is doing whatever incorrectly and she is expected to do it the way you are going to teach her.

Remind her that she is your assistant, not the other way around. Also that it is not acceptable for her to do whatever however.

Get it into your brain that she is not a licensed nurse. You are the licensed nurse.

Stop listening to gossip and do not talk to anyone else about her behind her back unless you are going to whoever the boss is with a formal communique. How do you know she has made comments to other workers? How do you know what she said to whom?

Start keeping a written record of everything she does wrong, any rudeness, any inappropriateness, any unwillingness to be shown the right way, anything you try to teach her - dates and enough detail that you will recall the events later.

Are you doing her evaluation? If so, be honest and thorough.

Treat her like what she is - a woman who went to RN school and graduated, but is not licensed. She is NOT a nurse, whatever her background might be. How do you even know that she did actually graduate from RN school? Maybe she made that up???

YOU ARE HER BOSS. But you have to act like it. It gets easier.

Whoever hired her might have figured they were getting a bargain - a nurse for the price of an office worker. Often we get what we pay for.

Did anyone actually do a reference check? See her transcript? Any real verification of who this person really is?

AutumnApple · Sep 25, 2016

Can you give an example of how to redirect without bruising the ego? How to be an ally or concerned coworker?
For that matter, everyone who has suggested that the OP assert herself or try various techniques - it would really help if you could give an example or two.
Thanks

With this individual, the Coyote Principal is taking effect. I spoke about this before in a thread where the individual felt bullied.

Coyotes fear us and will make every effort to avoid human settlements. At times though, if their food source or safety is threatened, they will creep in closer and closer to human dwellings. They will "cross our boundaries" seeking what they need (food, shelter from whatever).

The person the OP is dealing with is like a coyote. She is creeping in on OP's boundaries because she is lacking something. What she is lacking is a sense of self importance, of accomplishment. As I said, her ego is bruised and she is using poor coping to sooth it.

Give her what she needs, and she will not overstep the boundaries so much.

She needs validated. She needs to know people are not chuckling at her behind her back because of failing boards. She needs to know she can be considered a part of the team and be treated like an equal, not a flunky.

To achieve this, you must use positive reinforcement. Compliment what she does well. Inform her when she is contributing to the team, let her know you notice it and appreciate it.

All the while, you must reestablish your personal boundaries. Reinforce that you prefer she not run to co-workers when she doesn't agree with something, that you like to be told about it first. When she is doing something wrong, correct it, but use tact.

When I was a preceptor, I worked with more than a few nurses who failed boards first try. Most passed the second time, one took three attempts to pass. They all worked as aids on the unit between losing the GN license and passing. These people have a very hard time of holding onto their sense of esteem while This is all going on.

*In my experience* the "put them in their place" approach never works. In fact, it escalates the problem and creates conflict. I can assure you, once you take that road, there is no turning back. You have made yourself an enemy in their eyes no matter how good things go afterwards.

*In my opinion" the phrase "You are the professional, put them in their place" is an oxymoron. To me, being the professional means having the obligation to do more than just bark at them and create conflict. Practicing leadership and taking the harder road, the road that may actually resolve the problem, is what the professional does.

Sour Lemon · Sep 25, 2016

With this individual, the Coyote Principal is taking effect. I spoke about this before in a thread where the individual felt bullied.
Coyotes fear us and will make every effort to avoid human settlements. At times though, if their food source or safety is threatened, they will creep in closer and closer to human dwellings. They will "cross our boundaries" seeking what they need (food, shelter from whatever).
The person the OP is dealing with is like a coyote. She is creeping in on OP's boundaries because she is lacking something. What she is lacking is a sense of self importance, of accomplishment. As I said, her ego is bruised and she is using poor coping to sooth it.
Give her what she needs, and she will not overstep the boundaries so much.
She needs validated. She needs to know people are not chuckling at her behind her back because of failing boards. She needs to know she can be considered a part of the team and be treated like an equal, not a flunky.
To achieve this, you must use positive reinforcement. Compliment what she does well. Inform her when she is contributing to the team, let her know you notice it and appreciate it.
All the while, you must reestablish your personal boundaries. Reinforce that you prefer she not run to co-workers when she doesn't agree with something, that you like to be told about it first. When she is doing something wrong, correct it, but use tact.
When I was a preceptor, I worked with more than a few nurses who failed boards first try. Most passed the second time, one took three attempts to pass. They all worked as aids on the unit between losing the GN license and passing. These people have a very hard time of holding onto their sense of esteem while This is all going on.
*In my experience* the "put them in their place" approach never works. In fact, it escalates the problem and creates conflict. I can assure you, once you take that road, there is no turning back. You have made yourself an enemy in their eyes no matter how good things go afterwards.
*In my opinion" the phrase "You are the professional, put them in their place" is an oxymoron. To me, being the professional means having the obligation to do more than just bark at them and create conflict. Practicing leadership and taking the harder road, the road that may actually resolve the problem, is what the professional does.

Oh, you're way too nice. If she's missing something, she needs to look within herself. What are we teaching people with "poor coping skills" when we give them exactly what they want for acting like jerks?

Nursekrn7 · Sep 25, 2016

Oh, you're way too nice. If she's missing something, she needs to look within herself. What are we teaching people with "poor coping skills" when we give them exactly what they want for acting like jerks?

She isn't way too nice. @AutumnApple I actually couldn't agree with you more.