RN Graduate Establishes Dominance

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Hello fellow Nurses!

I am in need of some advice and alternate opinions. I am experiencing difficulty making a decision on what to do. The situation is as follows:

I am an LPN working for a General Surgeon and Nurse Practitioner. I am the only clinical employee in the office; so, needless to say, the work load is WAY too much. They recently hired a medical assistant for me to help. I was so excited to have a partner/coworker; and, even more excited to have a Graduate Nurse from an RN associates program. She graduated six years ago; however, she is not licensed. She failed the NCLEX five times and decided she was done trying. This was the reason she gave in the interview for not becoming licensed, "Family is more important to me and I didn't want to work RN hours." At first, I was perplexed but thought that maybe life handed her some higher priorities. Now I know she lied about it. I wouldn't have thought any different of her had she told me the truth. I guess I am rambling so I will get straight to the point. She has made multiple comments to me, the providers and the my other coworkers about her superiority compared to my LPN status. She has tried to tell me how to do my job ( mind you it is only her second week working ). She will cut me off mid-sentence when trying to teach her how to do something in order to let me know she is already aware of how to do it; however, she does it incorrectly. There are so many other things this person has done that disappoint me greatly. I would never ever disrespect a fellow RN or LPN and I have never been treated as a lesser equal by those RN's I have worked for. It is quite the contrary: They have asked me for help/advice in areas I was more knowledgeable in and vice-versa. Friends are telling me I need to assert my authority right away but I am a very passive person. Plus, I really wanted my assistant and I to have a great working relationship. Like police partners...sharing the load and having each others backs. I guess I am hesitant to assert my authority because I do respect her for graduating from RN school (even though she is not an RN, Not even a certified medical assistant) I know it is drilled into LPN's during school to always report to their RN;so, maybe that is why I am lacking in putting my foot down. Maybe in my mind she has some authority over me??? I am a bit surprised in the lack of her basic nursing knowledge for a graduate nurse, for example: not knowing what warfarin was, or knowing that Mycin antibiotics are not Penicillins. ( Maybe those are just some things she forgot right? I mean....I don't remember everything ) I feel so indecisive and confused. I guess what I really want to know is this:

Would I be in the wrong for treating her like a medical assistant and not a graduate nurse?

I gave her my trust and the privileges of a graduate nurse but now I am thinking the better of it. She doesn't respect me at all and has made that quite clear. I am so bummed out. Any suggestions, reassurance, advice or opinions would be MUCH APPRECIATED!

-Nic

Yes I did. If I did, they would help, but there were a few that I wouldn't even have to ask and would assist right off the bat.

Yes I did. If I did, they would help, but there were a few that I wouldn't even have to ask and would assist right off the bat.

You did what? Who would help? The quote function is your friend here. It helps us know to whom you are replying/directing comments so we don't have to go back and read the whole thread.

Did you ask for help when you needed it?

Yes they would help. @vanillabean- this is what I am referring to. I did not know how to use the quote until you told me to. Thanks.

I'm a graduate RN who is actually licenced - and still I listen to the wisdom and experience of Enrolled Nurses (Australian version of LPN) and assistants - because ultimately I am responsible but I listen to people's experience.

The way I see it, even if she were licenced she should respect you. The fact is that she isn't, so isn't a RN, and has no authority. She probably needs a firm talking to and you need to speak with your boss.

Oh yes and I will also add, that most of the RNs I were with treated me as a colleague, just with different duties. They did not put me down because I was an MA, they respected me as their fellow coworker and we all relied on each other. I am just saying this because I don't want other nurses on here to think they are better than UAP's, the difference is that YOU are in the supervisory roll. I'm glad that you were initially excited to have somebody to work with, however I am sorry she is not working well with you!

OP's post reported an unlicensed person, not following her direction. Whereas, you may have had a different experience in the office, it is comparing apples to oranges. As you don't want nurses to feel they are "better" , define better. The supervisory ROLE includes responsibility for the actions of unlicensed personnel... such as CNA's, MA's .

Oh, you're way too nice. If she's missing something, she needs to look within herself. What are we teaching people with "poor coping skills" when we give them exactly what they want for acting like jerks?

We should be civil to everyone, never make fun of anyone. We need to remember we are in the workplace, not in the rumpus room with our pals at home.

I understand what Autumn Apple said, I agree to a point - the point where we remember we are at work with a job to do. And that job is not to mother everyone on staff. That said, she makes an excellent point about recognizing who and what each staff member is and being decent and helpful to all.

OP has already been doing this and her reward has been for the new worker to gossip about her (how does she know this?) and cut her off and tell her she's not really the boss, if not in so many words.

New worker is bitter and resentful. That is not OP's fault. OP should not have to deal with NW's personal problems, which NW could probably correct with some studying and retaking NCLEX.

OP needs to get it straight in her own head first, then go to the hiring/firing person with her concerns.

Sorry if I seem cold. I just think people need to leave their personal messes at home and do their jobs while on the job. And in this case, there is resentment of OP and apparent badmouthing of OP to others at work.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I would have a nice long talk with the office manager (or whoever hired her) and damn soon.

Specializes in Pediatrics.
I have no advice, but she sounds like a complete nightmare. I can't imagine why your employer would want to hire someone who failed NCLEX five times ...into any position. Have you discussed these issues with your employer(s)? You'll need to have their support if you hope to keep her in line, but it might be better to just show her the door.

What a nightmare, is right! I'd have blown a gasket the first time she tried to tell me my job! Actually I've been in that situation. I don't like confrontation either, but, it got to the point where I couldn't let things go any more...And I told that pushy medical assistant who felt she was "just as good as a nurse" that a) I was the RN b) I make the decisions because I have the license c) if you don't like it, leave.

You are a long time employee, you are licensed, an LPN! Do not take this lying down! This person is dangerous, if you allow her to work under you, and make the decisions and comments on treatment it will be asked why you allowed this person to do what ever it is she is going to do that causes harm. Stand up my sister! Be brave... She is NOT a nurse, you are a nurse! LPNs get a bad rap and I don't know why!

Ive worked with some fantastic LPNs and I've learned so much from them.... I know it was drilled into people's brains that the RN is in charge, but in this case YOU are in charge! My best friend is an LPN, I went from pediatric OR to LTC .... Without my now best friend I wouldn't have lasted very long in LTC, I knew nothing about Alzheimer's and Dementia... Palliative Care was something I had never dealt with! Now? I am the palliative care RN where I work! ( I moved back home to be close to elderly parents... No pediatric OR in rural NS) Don't think because you're an LPN you are not a brilliant fantastic nurse! You are! I owe everything to my friend, she is a brilliant fantastic nurse!

Now, go tell her she is not the LPN, she is not the GN, she is unlicensed assistive medical personnel and she is YOUR assistant, and things will be done according to your policy and procedure manuals..... If she doesn't like it she can leave.

talk to your managers, communication with them is very important. Write down the dates and times she has done something untoward and report it... Let them know your concerns. They are valid!

I know.... I'm telling you what to do but this is just my advice, be brave my friend. This person is a bully, very insecure, and she's taking advantage of your passivity. It used to happen to me all the time, I had to make the decision to become a strong passionate nurse for bullied nurses and an advocate for my clients/patients.

Best wishes to you!

OP has disappeared. I wonder how the situation is working out?

Specializes in M/S, Pulmonary, Travel, Homecare, Psych..
What a nightmare, is right! I'd have blown a gasket the first time she tried to tell me my job! Actually I've been in that situation. I don't like confrontation either, but, it got to the point where I couldn't let things go any more...And I told that pushy medical assistant who felt she was "just as good as a nurse" that a) I was the RN b) I make the decisions because I have the license c) if you don't like it, leave.

You are a long time employee, you are licensed, an LPN! Do not take this lying down! This person is dangerous, if you allow her to work under you, and make the decisions and comments on treatment it will be asked why you allowed this person to do what ever it is she is going to do that causes harm. Stand up my sister! Be brave... She is NOT a nurse, you are a nurse! LPNs get a bad rap and I don't know why!

Ive worked with some fantastic LPNs and I've learned so much from them.... I know it was drilled into people's brains that the RN is in charge, but in this case YOU are in charge! My best friend is an LPN, I went from pediatric OR to LTC .... Without my now best friend I wouldn't have lasted very long in LTC, I knew nothing about Alzheimer's and Dementia... Palliative Care was something I had never dealt with! Now? I am the palliative care RN where I work! ( I moved back home to be close to elderly parents... No pediatric OR in rural NS) Don't think because you're an LPN you are not a brilliant fantastic nurse! You are! I owe everything to my friend, she is a brilliant fantastic nurse!

Now, go tell her she is not the LPN, she is not the GN, she is unlicensed assistive medical personnel and she is YOUR assistant, and things will be done according to your policy and procedure manuals..... If she doesn't like it she can leave.

talk to your managers, communication with them is very important. Write down the dates and times she has done something untoward and report it... Let them know your concerns. They are valid!

I know.... I'm telling you what to do but this is just my advice, be brave my friend. This person is a bully, very insecure, and she's taking advantage of your passivity. It used to happen to me all the time, I had to make the decision to become a strong passionate nurse for bullied nurses and an advocate for my clients/patients.

Best wishes to you!

Her being the one that leaves rarely is the outcome. Take a glance at some of the threads on here regarding employee-employee disagreements.

Most facilities wash their hands of it and just tell the two involved to settle their differences. If/when one or the other crosses the line, then they intervene. Often, exactly how they wish to intervene is arbitrary .

What I see happening more often than not is: People in the OP'so situation get beat by the other employee. They don't learn to manage the situation, they cease to be able to cope and then the day comes. The day where they, as you put it, "blow a gasket!".

Once they have been pushed to that, there is no going back and they have made themselves the bad guy. They have effectively been, as the cyber geeks put it, "FLAMED".

There is a very important detail that has not come up in this thread yet. Management will not be in a hurry to discipline this person no matter how problematic. That would be admitting they made a huge mistake when they hired them.

That is why, in order to get them to see the problem, you must first demonstrate that they had every opportunity to succeed. If you go to management about her with nothing more than a history of bickering and blowing your gasket, they will quickly redirect YOU and remain firm in their insistence that she was a "good hire".

On the other hand, go to them armed to the teeth with example after example of how proper leadership did not improve things and, you at least have a chance.

Specializes in Pediatrics.
With this individual, the Coyote Principal is taking effect. I spoke about this before in a thread where the individual felt bullied.

Coyotes fear us and will make every effort to avoid human settlements. At times though, if their food source or safety is threatened, they will creep in closer and closer to human dwellings. They will "cross our boundaries" seeking what they need (food, shelter from whatever).

The person the OP is dealing with is like a coyote. She is creeping in on OP's boundaries because she is lacking something. What she is lacking is a sense of self importance, of accomplishment. As I said, her ego is bruised and she is using poor coping to sooth it.

Give her what she needs, and she will not overstep the boundaries so much.

She needs validated. She needs to know people are not chuckling at her behind her back because of failing boards. She needs to know she can be considered a part of the team and be treated like an equal, not a flunky.

To achieve this, you must use positive reinforcement. Compliment what she does well. Inform her when she is contributing to the team, let her know you notice it and appreciate it.

All the while, you must reestablish your personal boundaries. Reinforce that you prefer she not run to co-workers when she doesn't agree with something, that you like to be told about it first. When she is doing something wrong, correct it, but use tact.

When I was a preceptor, I worked with more than a few nurses who failed boards first try. Most passed the second time, one took three attempts to pass. They all worked as aids on the unit between losing the GN license and passing. These people have a very hard time of holding onto their sense of esteem while This is all going on.

*In my experience* the "put them in their place" approach never works. In fact, it escalates the problem and creates conflict. I can assure you, once you take that road, there is no turning back. You have made yourself an enemy in their eyes no matter how good things go afterwards.

*In my opinion" the phrase "You are the professional, put them in their place" is an oxymoron. To me, being the professional means having the obligation to do more than just bark at them and create conflict. Practicing leadership and taking the harder road, the road that may actually resolve the problem, is what the professional does.

But this is work... Peoples lives are in this persons hand...... It's not therapy. Do your job, or leave.

Specializes in M/S, Pulmonary, Travel, Homecare, Psych..
But this is work... Peoples lives are in this persons hand...... It's not therapy. Do your job, or leave.

All the more reason to keep your own professionalism intact. The office is already lacking in it due to the problematic employee.

You do realize don't you, that: 1. The OP is in charge of the problematic employee but is not the boss. She is not the one who fires people. Going to someone and saying "Do it or leave" isn't an option for her. 2. "Do your job, or leave" never works even if you have the authority to go there. It sounds great in a rant on a nursing forum, not so effective real life.

End result of that approach is, you get just the opposite. They dig in their heels. The behavior escalates AND they aren't going anywhere until it's on their terms.

As you said, "This is work". It's not a hair pulling fight in the playground at high school. Dropping your own professionalism on the floor with "Do it or else" comments won't help. As a professional, I'd want this girl to either change, or be rid of her as fast as possible. You're not going to get there if the powers that be, the ones who can get rid of her, think you escalated the problem.

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