Many ADN-BSN online programs tried to deceive students into believing that they can get their BSN from ADN in 13 months or less. That's a lie and false advertisement. They are not telling the whole story.
For example, University of Texas at Arlington advertises this past spring that you can get your degree from ADN to BSN in 13 months. After you enrolled and pay their high tuition rates, they want you to take from them American History I and II, Texas history, and other courses that have nothing to do with Nursing. You can take these same courses from Community Colleges in California at 1/6 their cost, but if you do they may or may not accept them for credit. For example, I have a friend who took US History from a community college. UTA does not accept them for transfer credit. Their Academic Advisors are trained to do what is good for business, and not what is good for you, the student. Be careful and do not fall for their traps! They want you to stay longer in their school, and pay for their courses that nobody wants to take, such as political science, and so forth
I heard that Excelsior College gives you 35 BSN credits for your NCLEX. They don't give you the run around treatment. They are located in Albany, New York. Their tuition is a little higher, but you can graduate sooner with no hassle and stumbling blocks.
Where I started , I wanted to point out, as a healthcare activist, and in PA, you'd be surprised how many ARE forcing employers to be fair...and many work in facilities that employ ADNs.
Many young and new are sick and tired of doing more with less, and have taken steps to force employers to do what is right; so don't be mistaken in your quest that nurses are afraid to speak out, when many are not and are growing by the day.
Well that I'm glad to hear. And I hope those numbers keep growing because I personally know nurses who've had their licenses put in jeopardy by management. I'm sure you have also. Not only did management try put the nurse's license in jeopardy, more importantly they endangered patients lives. And the kicker was, it was all about the hospital trying to save money by not wanting to call an agency trying to have nurses take on double patient loads on an acute care floor. Those nurses handled it the right way and refused to yield to management. But these nurses were experienced, they had 8-12 years experience and knew the limitations.
I personally know nurses who've had their licenses put in jeopardy by management. I'm sure you have also. Not only did management try put the nurse's license in jeopardy, more importantly they endangered patients lives.
So I am sure you are a supporter of enforced nurse-patient staffing ratios?
If I were in a hospital as a patient, I want that nurse with the 20+ years of experience with the certifications that demonstrate excellence in specific areas of nursing such as critical care ICU.
Now, would you want a nurse with 20+ years experience and certifications that stopped school with an associates 20 years ago or a nurse with 20+ years experience and certifications that over the past 20 years has continued his/her education with a bachelors and a masters, contributed to EBP research, etc?
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
You don't need a blank check...if you have support, then you can survey data of how what facilities have primarily ADNs, look up CMS outcomes per facility-problem solved.
Outcomes? Why would we care to study outcomes? We know that patient satisfaction is what really counts, regardless of outcomes. Its patient satisfaction that determines level of reimbursement so that must be the most important criteria.
Who cares is post op patients developed a PE or had to be bounced back to ICU and had a longer hospital stay? What really matters is if the bedside nurses treated the patient like a hotel guest, fetched enough coffee and soda for family members and administered lots of pain meds.
So I am sure you are a supporter of enforced nurse-patient staffing ratios?
Absolutely.
Now, would you want a nurse with 20+ years experience and certifications that stopped school with an associates 20 years ago or a nurse with 20+ years experience and certifications that over the past 20 years has continued his/her education with a bachelors and a masters, contributed to EBP research, etc?
I want the nurse who has proven in those 20+ years that they can adapt to new technology, preventative measures treatments and patient care methods and that hey will continue to adapt. That doesn't come from earning higher degrees and writing APA format papers on nursing theory. Now if RN-BSN work consisted of new ways to recognize the early signs of sepsis, new methods of diabetes treatments and prevention, as well as the same for heart failure and other pathology, they would have me at hello. But that's not what I saw in all the curriculums I looked at. What I am in favor of are mandatory continuing ed certifications in areas like I mentioned. Those certifications will include testing that a nurse will have to eventually pass to show the knowledge was absorbed. just read more testimonials from real hospital nurses about how we're losing our most experienced nurses. When I start reading testimonials from real doctors and nurses in hospitals about how they see a difference in the care provided by a BSN vs ADNs and diploma prepared nurses, I will change my attitude. The only thing I've seen so far is that coming from those who are in some way affiliated with academia and other organizations that stand to benefit from a drive to get people back into four year schools. Speaking of which, must get to back to work. Contacted another radio talk show host. Many people are not even aware that diploma, Associates's and BSN nurses all prepared to take the same exam. They must have the same nursing nursing content to be accredited to allow grads to sit for the exam. People also need to be educated about what Magnet Status really is. Next to four year colleges and universities, it's one of the biggest rackets going on involving healthcare today. And that's coming from a nurse with 2 degrees and graduate work to boot. Four year schools are not about education anymore, they are about funding and revenue with educating students coming last on the list of priorities.
I want the nurse who has proven in those 20+ years that they can adapt to new technology, preventative measures treatments and patient care methods and that hey will continue to adapt.
Who has done all of the landmark research on nurse staffing ratios and patient safety?
Outcomes? Why would we care to study outcomes? We know that patient satisfaction is what really counts, regardless of outcomes. Its patient satisfaction that determines level of reimbursement so that must be the most important criteria.
Who cares is post op patients developed a PE or had to be bounced back to ICU and had a longer hospital stay? What really matters is if the bedside nurses treated the patient like a hotel guest, fetched enough coffee and soda for family members and administered lots of pain meds.
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Of course I know this.
But for the sake of avengingspirit 's crusade against academia, extrapolating what REALLY counts to CMS per the 2006 reforms that have been a stepped process that occurred in 2008 and 2011, what counts for the hospitals pocketbook are those outcomes.
Even though one could go over the reforms, it even suggests that outcomes and acuity are supposed to be nurse driven, but hospitals are so wrapped up in pt satisfaction that they refuse to put money in software that tracks acuity-I've had the fortunate experience to work for at least one hospital that teams acuity and responds to adequately staffing until when acuity is high, hence better pt satisfaction...I know, it's like working at a unicorn hospital.
"In a nationally representative sample, we found that higher patient satisfaction was associated with lower emergency department utilization, higher inpatient utilization, greater total health care expenditures, and higher expenditures on prescription drugs. The most satisfied patients also had statistically significantly greater mortality risk compared with the least satisfied patients."
Fenton, J. J., Jerant, A. F., Bertakis, K. D., & Franks, P. (2012). The cost of satisfaction: a national study of patient satisfaction, health care utilization, expenditures, and mortality. Archives of internal medicine, 172(5), 405-411.
I agree with avengingspirit1 about the need for mandatory continuing education/certifications. I think that is the crux of the discussion.
I have yet to hear a patient/member of the public say that they are concerned about whether their nurse has a diploma, ADN, BSN, or master's degree. They do say however that they want their nurse to be proficient at providing care at the bedside when they or their family member are the patient in the bed. How about polling the general public and asking them what abilities/training/education they consider important in the nurse/s providing their care when they or their family members are hospitalized or undergoing invasive procedures?
A significant number of states don't even require ANY continuing education for license renewal, so if the intention is to raise the quality of nursing care why is there no clamor about the very different amounts of continuing education requirements? Surely this makes a difference in clinical practice?
Board Certifications? Numerous nurses on this forum attest to the improvement that studying for and obtaining certifications in their specialty has had on their practice, and I agree. Then there is the continuing education requirement to maintain those certifications: the certifications that I know of require 100 continuing education contact hours in a four year period; enough in my experience to be more or less continually working on improving one's practice/increasing one's knowledge of a specialty. There are also various other types of certifications that apply to different areas of clinical practice, such as ACLS, which comprise large amounts of clinical knowledge.
I think this discussion should be more about the need for ongoing continuing nursing education and the value of obtaining Board Certifications. The advanced health assessment class in my ADN-BSN bricks-and-mortar program at a respected state university; the four unit college statistics course taken at a community college as part of the requirement for the BSN, and the nursing research course, have been very useful over the years, so it would be untrue to say that nothing enduringly useful came from my ADN-BSN training; but one doesn't need to be enrolled in an ADN-BSN program when one could take these classes at a community college in a classroom or online if the college offered them. If there was the will substantial courses in advanced health assessment and nursing research could be offered at community colleges post ADN/Diploma graduation and considered as continuing education requirements.
Who has done all of the landmark research on nurse staffing ratios and patient safety?
And you didn't answer the question.
I did. Look above. I said I was in favor of mandatory nurse-patient staffing ratios.
This is also what I wrote:
I want the nurse who has proven in those 20+ years that they can adapt to new technology, preventative measures treatments and patient care methods and that hey will continue to adapt. That doesn't come from earning higher degrees and writing APA format papers on nursing theory.
Given my 1st sentence; it wouldn't matter to me whether the nurse had a diploma, Associate's or Bachelor's. As long as they are proven competent.
Aiken did do the research on nurse-patient ratios. That was an original study. They took that research, filtered, cut, pasted shaved.......... to try to force it on the template for the BSN study. Then they applied the regression model to hypothetical situations instead of researching real nurses in real hospital situations. The BSN study was not original and fatally flawed. That's what they hoped people wouldn't notice when they put it out there and it became the catalyst for the BSN push. But many of us now do.
Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
"In a nationally representative sample, we found that higher patient satisfaction was associated with lower emergency department utilization, higher inpatient utilization, greater total health care expenditures, and higher expenditures on prescription drugs. The most satisfied patients also had statistically significantly greater mortality risk compared with the least satisfied patients."
Fenton, J. J., Jerant, A. F., Bertakis, K. D., & Franks, P. (2012). The cost of satisfaction: a national study of patient satisfaction, health care utilization, expenditures, and mortality. Archives of internal medicine, 172(5), 405-411.
Wait until your CHF patient on a sodium restriction complains about you as the RN and the whole hospital for refusing to provide them with potato chips. Or when your post op patient is angry with his nurses for being firm about him getting up and walking when he really wants to lay there and get a PE or pneumonia, or when the drug seeking frequent flyer rates the ER as badly as possible because we are on to her game.
If people do not see the difference or advantage of getting a BSN, then they have only been exposed to the poor programs. We cannot possibly expect to be on the same level with any other healthcare professional (MD, PT, RD, PharmD, etc.) If we do not at least have a basic knowledge in EBR and leadership training, not to mention advanced nursing classes. It is apparently a buyer beware situation.
avengingspirit1
242 Posts
Well that I'm glad to hear. And I hope those numbers keep growing because I personally know nurses who've had their licenses put in jeopardy by management. I'm sure you have also. Not only did management try put the nurse's license in jeopardy, more importantly they endangered patients lives. And the kicker was, it was all about the hospital trying to save money by not wanting to call an agency trying to have nurses take on double patient loads on an acute care floor. Those nurses handled it the right way and refused to yield to management. But these nurses were experienced, they had 8-12 years experience and knew the limitations.