Requiring a BSN degree for an ADN scope of practice

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I recently attended an interview which BSN nurses were preferred (essentially required but they couldn't say so) but the duties were not upgraded. The position was at an ADN level of knowledge, skill, and ability. A BSN would be very hard pressed to use their advanced skill set in the position. Even with places that do require a BSN degree, the position doesn't require BSN knowledge. With the all shortage of positions and changes in nursing policy I'm sure this a common practice. I am a firm believer in education but this trend makes me uncomfortable. It's a waste of talent and doesn't increase the professionalism of nursing.

You are putting words in my mouth and you are really taking this too personal.

Calm Down, take a deep breath.

I wasn't trying to attack you. You seemed puzzled as to why so many took offense to your original post. I don't believe you set out to offend anyone but, clearly, you rubbed some the wrong way.

My point was your OP was loaded with implications, intentional or not.

I actually agree that degree inflation is a very real issue in nursing and that having two or more educational pathways to the same licensure is nonsensical. I think we in the US would be best off to follow the canadian model: making the BSN the entry to RN practice, while grandfathering in ALL current ADN/diploma grads with no strings attached. Make practical nursing a two year degree, and bring back the LPN to acute care bedside under a team-nursing model with the RN as the team leader of a team with LPNs and UAP.

There's a reason new grad BSNs make little, if any, more than a new grad ADN. There's nothing a BSN can do that an ADN cannot. If employers REALLY cared as much about education as they claim, they'd put their money where their mouth is, now wouldn't they?

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Specializes in Critical Care, Education.

This is a very interesting thread. I want to express appreciation for AN'ers who make an effort to ensure that the discussion remains professional and respectful.

In my state, and probably many others, we have adopted a model of Differentiated Essential Competencies that specifies the differences between levels of nursing education. Please note that we don't really have any diploma programs, so that is why this is not listed. It's pretty lengthy, if you want to take a quick look at a simplified table, just scroll on down to Page 13.

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

In my state, and probably many others, we have adopted a model of Differentiated Essential Competencies that specifies the differences between levels of nursing education. Please note that we don't really have any diploma programs, so that is why this is not listed. It's pretty lengthy, if you want to take a quick look at a simplified table, just scroll on down to Page 13.

Thanks for posting this link. I forgot this document existed. That's the kind of thing I was writing about earlier.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
Delusions, really! Let's keep things civil.

Hey you started it. You can't come on here and post in a rude, condescending and offensive (not to mention massively ill-informed) manner and not expect to receive replies in kind.

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So the question remains, what about the thousands of ADN nurses that are fully qualified (based on experience in the above disciplines) for a BSN, but don't meet the 'college degree' standard for a BSN?

Can they 'test up', so to speak? Or is this 'reward' of an 'advanced license' only available if a RN pays a university for it? And what about economic divisions? Some well-qualified nurses simply cannot afford to pay for a four-year degree, and tuition is going up at an alarming rate. Nor do many have the time with working full-time, raising families, and living life.

Just a bit of a clarification is required here, I think: The BSN is not an advanced license, and therefore 'testing up' is clearly not part of the equation. An RN doesn't "pay a university" for a higher license, they pay the tuition for courses that (eventually) will result in a higher college degree.

In a nutshell: no, if someone has not earned all the college credits required for a BSN, they shouldn't be granted one, regardless of experience. After all, who hasn't heard of people in various fields who can 'run circles around' the guy with a higher college degree.....but still doesn't HAVE that degree? In the case of nursing, it isn't about who is a better bedside nurse, it's just about achieving a higher level of education. Experience is entirely different than college education.

And this is coming from an ADN nurse ;)

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
This is a very interesting thread. I want to express appreciation for AN'ers who make an effort to ensure that the discussion remains professional and respectful.

In my state, and probably many others, we have adopted a model of Differentiated Essential Competencies that specifies the differences between levels of nursing education. Please note that we don't really have any diploma programs, so that is why this is not listed. It's pretty lengthy, if you want to take a quick look at a simplified table, just scroll on down to Page 13.

Interesting. While obviously Texas isn't really a national leader in the advancement of nursing practice, I am surprised that so many difference must exist between the ADN and BSN school programs to justify what is said in the document.

In other states the ADN and BSN programs are near carbon copies of each other and such differences would be hard to justify.

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Specializes in ICU.

What I was initially confused by was your term scope of practice. The scopes of practice are identical whether you are a BSN or ADN. After reading later posts, you want to rehash Avery old debate. Until the NCLEX and scope of practice is changed, there is no difference. We all must have a certain number of clinical hours and theory, and lab. You want to know why your extra few credit hours are not being put to use. But, they are gen Ed credits that are different. Your core nursing program is the same. They are both 2 years with a certain number of classes. In my ADN program, I will take a nursing leadership class. I have heard many people say, well the BSNs will be charge nurses and DONs. ADNs are for bedside. I will be getting my BSN someday. Just so I can get the job I want. But writing a couple extra papers and taking a history and religion class will not make me a better nurse. Yes, I am aware of the study and I do not agree with it. How many cancer studies have been done? One day red wine is good and protects your heart. Another, don't drink it, it causes such and such cancer and may damage your heart. And I think this is why nothing has been done about it yet. Until they do, this will be debated over and over with the same people on both sides.

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Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

In other states the ADN and BSN programs are near carbon copies of each other and such differences would be hard to justify.

I think that is the point of much of the debate. Some of us in nursing want to clarify the distinction between the 2 degrees to avoid confusion. Having "virtually the same curricula" for 2 different levels of education is not a sensible thing for a society. It has nothing to do with the capabilities (or lack thereof) of individual people who may have attended one type of program or the other. If there are 2 different degrees, there should be 2 different curricula.

Also, there should not be so much variation among different geographic regions. People should be free to move from region to region with their credentials signifying the same level of academic preparation. In my neck of the woods, a person can get an ADN in 15 months with no pre-reqs. Those programs include none of the more advanced content that some 3-year ADN programs (2 years + a year of pre-reqs) include. That amount of variation is not good.

That's why I feel there needs to be some re-organization and standardization, with 2 levels of preparation and expectations clearly defined.

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I think because there was a report that patient outcomes are better with BSN nurses there is a push for magnet status at hospitals. Or it could be the hospitals just want to sound better to people, so they want to tout the magnet status to woo potential customers.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

Clearly the OP didn't understand the difference between ADN and BSN.

Whether or not outcomes differ is very much up for debate. So far what we pretty much have is people who sell a certain product (the BSN) telling us that their "study" shows those who purchase their product have better outcomes.

Then what do we have on the other side of the debate? The people that sell the other product telling us that the studies published just aren't true, just because.

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Can the "I don't like the BSN degree" discussion have its own permanent thread here at AN? That will streamline this process a great deal...;)

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
In my neck of the woods, a person can get an ADN in 15 months

And in my neck of the wood a person with a degree in anything can get a BSN in 12 months.

That's why I feel there needs to be some re-organization and standardization, with 2 levels of preparation and expectations clearly defined.

While I can understand why you might feel that way, I can hardly think of anything more likely to cause outrage and infighting in nursing. I think this exact idea is one of the biggest hurdles to BSN as entry to practice.

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