Requiring a BSN degree for an ADN scope of practice

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I recently attended an interview which BSN nurses were preferred (essentially required but they couldn't say so) but the duties were not upgraded. The position was at an ADN level of knowledge, skill, and ability. A BSN would be very hard pressed to use their advanced skill set in the position. Even with places that do require a BSN degree, the position doesn't require BSN knowledge. With the all shortage of positions and changes in nursing policy I'm sure this a common practice. I am a firm believer in education but this trend makes me uncomfortable. It's a waste of talent and doesn't increase the professionalism of nursing.

Specializes in Behavioral health.
Ah. You're referring to credentialism, a.k.a. credential inflation, b.k.a. degree inflation.

Precisely

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Specializes in Behavioral health.
So, real question. Up here in Canada the degree has been the only way to become an RN since 2009. Does the OP think all of the diploma and hospital trained nurses should be down graded?

The PN education up here is the old diploma course, so in his way of thinking all of those RNs without degrees should now be LPNs.

Respectfully, you are reading too much into this.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
I recently attended an interview which BSN nurses were preferred (essentially required but they couldn't say so) but the duties were not upgraded. The position was at an ADN level of knowledge, skill, and ability. A BSN would be very hard pressed to use their advanced skill set in the position.

Hopefully previous posters have educated you and you no longer suffer under these delusions.

The answer as to why they want BSN trained nurses is pretty simple. Management views BSN nurses as less likely to rock the boat and/or vote with their feet when faced with an unsafe practice environment, or abusive treatment. ADN RNs are viewed as more likely to complain when treated badly by management, or forced to practice in an unsafe manner and MUCH more likely to vote with their feet under those circumstances.

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Apples and oranges. The standards are the same. The NCLEX is the same. The outcome may indeed differ, but the practice and standards are, on paper, the same.

How can the standards and practice be the same but the outcomes differ?

That is something i never understood.

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Advanced in walls of academia. I was referring the core nursing science courses such as community health, nursing research, and health assessment.

I'm an ADN, and I had community health, nursing research, and health assessment classes. I also did community health clinical rotations- at the County Health Dept, and at an Indian Reservation.

I have had BSN preferred jobs, where I've had to use the skills of stocking supplies, emptying garbage cans, doing supply inventory and breaking down cardboard boxes.

These are BSN preferred jobs that don't use ADN skills/knowledge.

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Specializes in burn ICU, SICU, ER, Trauma Rapid Response.
How can the standards and practice be the same but the outcomes differ?

That is something i never understood.

Whether or not outcomes differ is very much up for debate. So far what we pretty much have is people who sell a certain product (the BSN) telling us that their "study" shows those who purchase their product have better outcomes.

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Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.
That is not the case in Ohio. We have diploma RN programs here.

She was talking about Canada.

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I think what you are asking is why are there different educational pathways leading to the same licensure. That's a good question. But you could have picked a less provacative way to frame it.

And what is the criteria for determining a RN position "only" requires an ADN level education? Do LTC and med/surg nurses "only" need an ADN while ICU nurses need a BSN? Just because a RN happens to work with lower-acuity patients, that doesn't mean he/she will be utilizing less skill/knowledge than a RN working with a higher acuity population.

You may think people are reading too much into this, and maybe we are. But when you say that BSN RNs are overeducated for certain RN positions, you're implying that ADN RNs are undereducated for others.

And by making the distinction in the first place, you're suggesting that the specialties you think require a BSN's "extra skill" are "real" nursing jobs while those specialties that you feel don't require a BSN are something less.

Believe me, those of us working in LTC, rehab, ambulatory care, etc are weary of the constant insinuation that our jobs somehow require less intelligence or critical thinking than jobs in acute care. That is simply not the case.

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I think what you are asking is why are there different educational pathways leading to the same licensure. That's a good question. But you could have picked a less provacative way to frame it.

And what is the criteria for determining a RN position "only" requires an ADN level education? Do LTC and med/surg nurses "only" need an ADN while ICU nurses need a BSN? Just because a RN happens to work with lower-acuity patients, that doesn't mean he/she will be utilizing less skill/knowledge than a RN working with a higher acuity population.

You may think people are reading too much into this, and maybe we are. But when you say that BSN RNs are overeducated for certain RN positions, you're implying that ADN RNs are undereducated for others.

And by making the distinction in the first place, you're suggesting that the specialties you think require a BSN's "extra skill" are "real" nursing jobs while those specialties that you feel don't require a BSN are something less.

Believe me, those of us working in LTC, rehab, ambulatory care, etc are weary of the constant insinuation that our jobs somehow require less intelligence or critical thinking than jobs in acute care. That is simply not the case.

Given my observations over the last few years, LTC (specifically LTACS) see nearly identical challenges when compared to hospital settings. Barring established critical care areas of course.

Many have been the number of patients when assessed I feel belong back in CC stepdown units/Med Surg/Tele/etc. And they would be better off there put frankly. With nurses of whatever level of official education who have a 1:4, 1:6, or even a dreamy 1:2 patient ratio. Yet, this lowly LPN (who scored quite well on the MCAT and has a BS in Biology/Chemistry) gets the 1:28 + ratio. Oh, and the joy of spending a 12 or 16 hour shift simply putting out fires.

One need not inquire to learn that I am still rather bitter about being unofficially dismissed from my previous hospital position (conveniently around the time the hospital applied for status). Yet and still, I've found it to be both comical and tragic simultaneously how the push for education magically disenfranchises experience.

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Specializes in Behavioral health.
Hopefully previous posters have educated you and you no longer suffer under these delusions.

Delusions, really! Let's keep things civil.

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Specializes in Behavioral health.
I think what you are asking is why are there different educational pathways leading to the same licensure. That's a good question. But you could have picked a less provacative way to frame it.

And what is the criteria for determining a RN position "only" requires an ADN level education? Do LTC and med/surg nurses "only" need an ADN while ICU nurses need a BSN? Just because a RN happens to work with lower-acuity patients, that doesn't mean he/she will be utilizing less skill/knowledge than a RN working with a higher acuity population.

You may think people are reading too much into this, and maybe we are. But when you say that BSN RNs are overeducated for certain RN positions, you're implying that ADN RNs are undereducated for others.

And by making the distinction in the first place, you're suggesting that the specialties you think require a BSN's "extra skill" are "real" nursing jobs while those specialties that you feel don't require a BSN are something less.

Believe me, those of us working in LTC, rehab, ambulatory care, etc are weary of the constant insinuation that our jobs somehow require less intelligence or critical thinking than jobs in acute care. That is simply not the case.

You are putting words in my mouth and you are really taking this too personal.

Calm Down, take a deep breath.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
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It has been a short while...but it's about that time.... :whistling:

The OP can search "ADN vs BSN" and get the opinions of many of us that have already posted before; most of the positions won't change from the opinions expressed and soon to be expressed on this thread.

I'm content for this thread being on the sidelines in a big comfy chair and my popcorn. ;)

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