Hey everyone. I am a beginning nursing student wondering about a few things. I was contemplating the idea of working in oncology, but Im unsure about how to handle the death experience. I am an agnostic/borderline athiest. I was questioning whether I would be able to provide complete care of a patient with different religious views. What Im wondering is if I can still be a good nurse in a setting where I am bound to deal with this situation over and over again.
We studied clutural differences in class today. We were told that it is our responsiblity as nurses to care for patients regardless of cultural differences. Im not questioning my ability to care for a dying patient in a physical way, but more of the spiritual part of it. I try to respect all beliefs. Would it be wrong to pray with a patient even if I dont believe in it? If a patient asks for comfort and to be told that they are going to heaven would it be ok to tell them yes even if I do not belive in a life after death? I dont think I would mind doing these things for a patient if asked, Im justs wondering if it is moral to do so.
I did a search for athiest nurses, and this forum is what I came up with. I got to read part of a really hot debate on this topic, but I think it got locked down. Im not trying to start another religious debate, but I was wondering about all of this. I guess the bottom line of what Im asking is if it is ok to pretend to believe what someone else does in order to give them comfort?
Any feedback would be appreciated and please remeber that I am only a nursing student with no experience yet.
But I digress the question I have especially for nurses is do you think the theory of evolution is plausible. Could it have been a cosmic happenstance that all of the elements needed to create life fell together by accident. .
Ahhhh... I see a difference in the way you think about evolution and the way evolutionists think about evolution. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) You seem to be thinking that the theory of evolution proposes that by some statistically rare coincidence, the one and only set of conditions necessary for life just happend by chance to come together at the same moment. That's not the way evolutionists view it.
I believe that the building blocks for life developed one by one, over time. There wasn't a single "magic moment" at which everything came together. Because the slow development of building blocks that evolved over millions of years does not require the same degree of statistical improbability to have had happened to occur, there is no need to envision a supernatural force to account for it. The "cosmic happenstance" that you seem to view as statistically improbable (and therefore, requiring divine intervention) was not really all that implausable.
Originally posted by llg That does't mean I don't appreciate the majesty of it all. I just don't ascribe a consciousness to the forces behind it's evolution. In my mind, the fact that it is all "natural" as opposed to "supernatural" makes it all that more wondrous. And I delight in the knowledge that it is still happening today ... and will continue to evolve tomorrow.
llg
So following up on the evolution thread. Are we still evolving. If so in what way are we evolving? I can see mental evolution as a possibility but other than that have we as humans changed since neanderthal man to modern man?
You know this line of thought has sort of brought me to something else interesting, In the 17th and 18th century there were many many new ideas and inventions that progressed man, but now real inventions (not just improving an old idea) are pretty rare,or maybe I am just out of the loop.
So following up on the evolution thread. Are we still evolving. If so in what way are we evolving? I can see mental evolution as a possibility but other than that have we as humans changed since neanderthal man to modern man?
"Modern man" (not a politically correct term BTW. :)) is only a hudred years old. Check back again in a few hudred thousand or million years and see what humans are up too and if they are still evolving.
Modernhumans are getting fatter, I wonder if that's some sort of evolution.
I think everyone questions their mortality, the universe, God and how to live with God if you believe. I have had varying beliefs over the years and at times almost approached being an agnostic (one who will believe when there is proof of an omnipotent being). To me an atheist is one who totally denies any supreme being. The facts tell them that it is not possible to have a supreme being.
I suggest that if you pray with patients (and I have many times whether I truly believed or not) that when you do so you give yourself to the experience, get into the moment and just think about providing a comforting experience for the patient. If you are more adventurous try to get into the moment and assume there really is a God. You may be surprised by what happens.
My feelings and beliefs about God were profoundly changed when I read a book by an atheist who set out to disprove the existence of God and wound up becoming a firm believer in Jesus Christ. He is a trained legal journalist who went around the country talking to archeologists, scientists as well as theologians and writes it all out in a book titled: The Case for Faith---By Lee Strobel. Give it a shot. I think as a student you should learn everything you can about everything your whole life through. I am always amazed by what I learn and what prayer can do!
Basically, evolution happens to Populations over Time. Do you think if we build a permanant colony on the moon or Mars and have a group of say, 10,000 people man it for 10,000 years, that those people will be just like us an the end of 10,000 years?
I believe that the challenge to the theory of evolution is not do humans and other species _adapt_, as crankyasanoldma just proposed -- we can see just from looking around Planet Earth that humans have adapted to a wide variety of environments. The challenge/question is, do species _change_ into another species, as the theory of evolution proposes.
For example, how long would humans have to live on Mars to become creatures who breathe sulfur gas (for example, or whatever combination of gases one finds on the surface of Mars -- I don't know offhand that might be) instead of creatures who breathe the combination of oxygen/nitrogen/etc. that we do now????
To a certain extent we can now control our environment, which is what triggers evolutionary change, so adapting to breathe gases other than oxygen is unnecessary.
Someone born in a lower-gravity environment may well adapt to that, since we can't modify that yet. Bone density may well be different, they may grow taller, with a bigger chest capacity to breathe lower concentrations of oxygen in their dome environments. Musculature may differ over time, so that returning to Earth gravity would be crippling for them....
Kim Stanley Robinson wrote a classic sci-fi trilogy about Mars, where mankind adapts Mars to an Earthlike environment.
Here on Earth, people living at high altitudes adapt their haemoglobin levels to carry more oxygen to the tissues in their lower air pressure environment. It has also been suggested that skin colour is an evolutionary adaptation related to vit. d production. Farther from the equator=less sunlight = paler skin to allow more light through.
"Modern man" (not a politically correct term BTW. ) is only a hudred years old. Check back again in a few hudred thousand or million years and see what humans are up too and if they are still evolving.
Modernhumans are getting fatter, I wonder if that's some sort of evolution.
No, I think that's just some kind of Mc'Donald's:)
Seriously, though, all anyone can do as a nurse is respect your patients views and try to work within those confines. It'snot like you could change anyone's opinion anyway. Just be there for them, listen to them, and stand quietly in a respectful manner while they pray, etc. The human presence is really what the pt needs most anyway.
I'm also an agnostic (which doesn't purport to know if there's a God or not)/atheist(does not believe in God), leaning more toward the atheist end of the spectrum. I was loosely raised in the Protestant tradition, but no categorization really plays a part in my life now. I'm not affiliated with any group, religious or atheist. Instead of church, we simply go boating or whatever. We do the mainline Christian holidays, because that's our cultural tradition, and our kids know that Christmas is celebrating the birth of Jesus and the spirit of giving. But we don't teach that Jesus is the only way, they also have heard of Buddha, Allah, Hannukah, and when they asked if there was a hell under the ground I just told them that some people think there is, what do you think? (to which they laughed and said "no!") I guess it seems just as puzzling to me that religious folks believe the things they do, as vice versa. As far as ethics & morals, you don't have to have a written religious rule to know to be kind to others. There is such a thing as intrinsic motivation to be good. If anyone is interested, you can find a lot on atheism and morals/ethics if you google it.
I find strength in my family, myself, and the beauty of nature and the cycle of life (not that I'm some big nature worshiper either). The whole tenet of 'Faith' goes against my way of thinking, which is to question everything. But I do have a whole bunch of 'Charity', does that count? *wink*
llg, PhD, RN
13,469 Posts
Ahhhh... I see a difference in the way you think about evolution and the way evolutionists think about evolution. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) You seem to be thinking that the theory of evolution proposes that by some statistically rare coincidence, the one and only set of conditions necessary for life just happend by chance to come together at the same moment. That's not the way evolutionists view it.
I believe that the building blocks for life developed one by one, over time. There wasn't a single "magic moment" at which everything came together. Because the slow development of building blocks that evolved over millions of years does not require the same degree of statistical improbability to have had happened to occur, there is no need to envision a supernatural force to account for it. The "cosmic happenstance" that you seem to view as statistically improbable (and therefore, requiring divine intervention) was not really all that implausable.
llg