Religion & Ectopic Abortion

Nurses Spirituality

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Hello nursing community!

I have a question for you all. How do you feel about methotrexate or other drug-based treatment for the termination of ectopic pregnancy? As someone who was raised with very loose christian beliefs and spent some of my young adult years in the Catholic Church, I'm really intrigued to see how much focus there really is on this topic in the medical community. I work in an OBGYN hospital on the triage floor, and many times have had methotrexate used to terminate ectopic pregnancy in non emergent situations. I have seen patients take this in different ways, varying from complete emotional breakdown to sigh of relief. I see this method as one of the safest ways to handle the situation and find the noninvasive nature of it very appealing, but according to the bylaws of the Catholic Church it is still abortion and an excommunicable offense. I am not certain of how other denominations of christianity or other religions view it, and would be curious to learn.

On that note, a couple of questions for you:

How do you feel about termination of an ectopic pregnancy by pharmaceutical means?

What religious background are you speaking from?

How does your denomination/church/religion view this? Are your views in line with theirs, or do you find yourself on the outskirts like me?

And to better understand your viewpoint, do you identify yourself as pro-life, pro-choice, or undecided?

Just so you don't think I am skipping out on the tough one: I am pro-choice (politically speaking) because I believe every woman has a right to make her own choice until the point of fetal viability. Morally speaking, I know that I could not choose to terminate a viable pregnancy under normal circumstances, because I do not believe it is right.

I know this can be a touchy subject for some, therefor I'm asking you to be kind. Please take care when choosing your words, and be kind to others. Everyone with personal connections to this topic will appreciate your gentle approach.

Specializes in Hospice,LTC,Pacu,Regulatory,Operating room.

2001 Methotrexate saved my life. I had an ectopic pregnancy and I almost died. I was in extreme pain and was 8 weeks pregnant in my fallopian tube. If it went one more day i would have bled to death in my sleep.The embryo had no heart tones and instead of losing my tube this preserved my ability to carry children, I later had two more babies and i am very blessed. I am very christian but i have a more open thought process when it comes to abortion.

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Specializes in Psychiatry, Community, Nurse Manager, hospice.
offlabel said:
Excommunication is a real penalty in the Catholic Church that is meant to get the attention of the individual(s) that is in contradiction to what the Church teaches. Pope Francis has already excommunicated a couple of people. It really isn't that uncommon. And there is such a thing as automatic excommunication as well. Abortion is one of them. The thing is, though, it isn't at all meant to be permanent. Just to send a strong message.

As to methyltrexate and tubal pregnancies, if it is the intention and effect of the therapy to specifically target the developing fetus for destruction, then, yes, the Church speaks against that. It isn't an opinion. What is up for grabs is the actual mechanism and effect of the therapy.

It is an uncomfortable line to take, but there are options that don't make this type of treatment the only course of action. That is what the big deal is here. Women who might choose differently not being given every option going forward for the purposes of medical expediency and not necessarily the woman's best interests.

Show me where the pope has stated that having an ectopic pregnancy removed is an "excommunicable offense."

This is BS. You know it and I know it.

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Wuzzie said:
Would you please just stop. This is getting tiresome. Not every Christian is as you seem to believe. In fact there are even some here on this thread who have expressed their moderate belief system and I don't recall any so far preaching eternal damnation or shoving their beliefs down our throats. Just because SOME Christians left you with a bad taste in your mouth does not give you the right to repeatedly bash all of them, constantly. This isn't the site for that. All people are welcome and you make them feel unwelcome. Ironic don't you think? I don't know what particular brand of paganism you follow but all of them have at their very base a creed to harm no one. Your behavior is hurting people here who have done you no wrong. Your negativity does not reflect well on you or your spiritual beliefs. But, unlike you, I'm not going to start bashing all pagans because that violates MY spiritual beliefs.

So true! I felt my initial post was very moderate and I support termination of ectopic pregnancy, despite being a Christian. But immediately someone latched onto my statement about how easy it is not to get pregnant if you take your contraceptive as ordered and follow all the rules. I worked in family planning at our local health department for 2 years. The ones who followed to the T the instructions they were given never fell into the small percentage of women who got pregnant on birth control. But the ones who said they did kept ending up on the other side, pregnant. And it was always the same clients. Funny how that works...

I had a baby, at 16. It was planned. I kept her. She is now 33 and an amazing woman. Eight hours of hard labor was the only convincing I needed to never miss a pill ( it was pills during my heyday ). During the six years, in between I raised her, I finished school, went to college. I don't believe folks when they say they took it just as prescribed. And neither did the practitioners I worked with who were all on birth control. I swear I believe they produce those statistics to avoid calling others out and outright liars. But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

I'm a Christian. I believe in abortion for ectopic pregnancy. I believe in birth control. I believe in taking control of your body; either by safe, protected sex, abstinence, or birth control. Did you notice there was no preaching about premarital sex, either? That's between you and your God, not mine.

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I would strongly encourage you to learn more about ectopic pregnancies if you are practicing as a nurse in OB triage. Underestimating the dangers of this condition can mean life or death for your patients.

Ectopic pregnancy is always a life threatening condition, and it tragically puts many pro-life women in the position of going against their moral beliefs to save their own lives. These pregnancies are always non-viable. If a woman declines life saving treatment (methotrexate or surgery) and waits for the ectopic pregnancy to rupture, she risks bleeding to death before she can seek emergent treatment. I've seen an ectopic patient's HCT drop from 32% to 13% in an hour. Failing to intervene before rupture also increases the risk of infertility because of the need for emergent salpingectomy, oophorectomy, or hysterectomy.

An ectopic pregnancy is never "stable;" there's no way of knowing when it will rupture.

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Wuzzie said:
I'm not debating you I'm asking you to stop making hateful, broad statements about Christians. Furthermore, you are making assumptions about me without even knowing me. This site is not intended to be your personal platform about how much you hate a particular belief system and I'm not the only one who is getting tired of hearing it ad nauseum.

I don't say all Christians. The Christians in my comments have particular views and behave similar way. If you are not like that, I am not talking about you.

Besides, I responded to a particular poster. You have a choice to look at what I wrote or not.

I can answer OP question with my view. However, she seemed to gear her question towards Christians, so I didn't participate. I did not respond any other comment from Christians in this topic.

Having said that, feel free to criticize me. I am done justifying my position with you.

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FacultyRN said:
I would strongly encourage you to learn more about ectopic pregnancies if you are practicing as a nurse in OB triage. Underestimating the dangers of this condition can mean life or death for your patients.

Ectopic pregnancy is always a life threatening condition, and it tragically puts many pro-life women in the position of going against their moral beliefs to save their own lives. These pregnancies are always non-viable. If a woman declines life saving treatment (methotrexate or surgery) and waits for the ectopic pregnancy to rupture, she risks bleeding to death before she can seek emergent treatment. I've seen an ectopic patient's HCT drop from 32% to 13% in an hour. Failing to intervene before rupture also increases the risk of infertility because of the need for emergent salpingectomy, oophorectomy, or hysterectomy.

An ectopic pregnancy is never "stable;" there's no way of knowing when it will rupture.

Is the rupture incident similar to the case of appendicitis?

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vetpharmtech said:
Christians only care about obedience to their god. Humanity is secondary.It is unfortunately, but it is a reality.

This doesn't say some Christians this implies all Christians.

vetpharmtech said:
I don't say all Christians.

See above.

FTR, I don't subscribe to a particular belief system as I find myself rather fluid on many issues so I don't look at it as if you are talking about me per se. Furthermore it's not at all about justifying your position. Trust me we ALL get it. All I'm asking is for you to cease with your divisive rhetoric so that other's can feel free to express theirs without feeling attacked which , BTW is what you accuse Christians of doing to you. Pot meet kettle.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Wuzzie said:
This doesn't say some Christians this implies all Christians.

See above.

FTR, I don't subscribe to a particular belief system as I find myself rather fluid on many issues so I don't look at it as if you are talking about me per se. Furthermore it's not at all about justifying your position. Trust me we ALL get it. All I'm asking is for you to cease with your divisive rhetoric so that other's can feel free to express theirs without feeling attacked which , BTW is what you accuse Christians of doing to you. Pot meet kettle.

As someone else in the thread stated "This has been MY experience. You have YOUR experience..."

How is it now that our experience is considered "divisive rhetoric", yet religious beliefs are not?

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/username said:
As someone else in the thread stated "This has been MY experience. You have YOUR experience..."

How is it now that our experience is considered "divisive rhetoric", yet religious beliefs are not?

That doesn't even make sense. I'm not saying you haven't had negative experiences. I'm not saying there aren't religious jerks in all faiths. What I AM saying isn't that not every Christian is a horrible person shoving their dogmas down your throat, disregarding humanity and generally being asses so quit denigrating an entire group of people based on your experience with a few. Do you see any Christians here bashing Muslims or Jews or Pagans? Nope! There hasn't been any proselytizing. No mention of burning in hell. People have expressed what their faith tells them and they are ALLOWED to believe what they want. And they should be free to express it in a non-confrontational way which has been demonstrated by everyone here but the two of you. You want to be accepted without giving acceptance. You want the freedom to say what you want yet don't allow others the same freedom without attacking them. Saying Christians have no regard for humanity is hateful and divisive. How you can not understand this absolutely baffles me. What is so wrong in asking for the hate speech to stop? Asking for a little kindness? In my world those are good things. If your world is different what a sad, angry existence that would be.

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vetpharmtech said:
Is the rupture incident similar to the case of appendicitis?

Almost always, ectopic pregnancies implant in a fallopian tube. They can also implant in ovaries, cesarean scars, or abdominal cavities, although those cases are rare. As the fetus grows, it can literally tear through/rupture the attachment site, resulting in massive internal bleeding.

A good history and physical assessment can help an OB or ER nurse identify which patients have a high likelihood of ectopic pregnancy so they can advocate for expedited diagnostic testing (ultrasound).

Common risk factors include a history of PID, tubal ligation, or previous ectopic, current use of an IUD, and smoking. Presenting symptoms often include unilateral lower abdominal pain (the side where the pregnancy has implanted) and spotting. Some women experience referred right shoulder pain, and unfortunately, sometimes the first symptom is loss of consciousness.

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Specializes in Pediatric Critical Care.
Persephone Paige said:
I specifically said in the paragraph below the one you quoted that I was happy to have my taxes help women prevent unwanted pregnancies.

But what if I'm not happy to have my taxes go to that? How can we make it where each persons taxes ONLY go towards the thing that they want their money used for?

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Specializes in Med/Surg.
vetpharmtech said:
I will if people of those categories are the majority in political forces that make laws against ones who don't share their faith.

I wish I could give this comment 100 likes. Preach!

Not for nothing, but I'm a Christian and I totally agree with everything you're saying. It's just like when someone makes a broad statement about white people being racist, only those who are feeling guilty take offense.

To everyone one who is upset about what he's saying: If you're not one of the Christians who force their beliefs into everyone else-through politics or otherwise-then why are you so damn upset?

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