NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees - page 44
But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse. New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN... Read More
Jan 22, '07Specialty: Geriatrics, Med-Surg. ; Joined: Oct '06; Posts: 949; Likes: 379I agree with Gromit, cutting out positions is scary, how will we ever know who is truly safe. What will happen when one day you need an MSN to bedside nurse, then what. I am not against higher education as I already have one Bachelors degree and will be starting my BSN in Sept., I just sometimes feel that the decisions that those in power make are often not without very serious repercussions in this field that is already very demanding and plagued with severe shortages. Just my two cents, that's all.
Jan 23, '07Occupation: pulling patients back from The Light Specialty: pulling patients back from The Light ; From: US ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 10,813; Likes: 25,299I'm seeing the "phase-out" of LPNs where I work. They're certainly not getting rid of anyone currently working there (yikes!!), or requiring them to get higher licensing, but they just aren't hiring new ones anymore. None. There's currently a huge campaign to recruit more RNs, badly needed, and whenever an LPN applies, s/he's told "sorry, RNs only".
The local vocational school that graduates LPNs is finding that the hospitals where the students do clinicals aren't hiring; only the nursing homes are.
So I don't know where this leaves the broader picture of LPNs in hospital settings, but I do see that phasing-out action happening now.
Jan 26, '07Occupation: Urgent Care RN Specialty: OR, MS, Neuro, UC ; From: US ; Joined: Sep '06; Posts: 203; Likes: 24Quote from clickhereadn programs must differ alot!!!!!!!!!!.
the accelerated bsn program has to complete 128 credit hours to convey the bsn vs. 60-64 credit hours for adn. are you saying that these students took twice as many classes and learned less?
what about the difficulty of the classes? i have taken classes at a university and several community colleges, and the difference in the quality and difficulty of courses at a university vs. a community college is noticeable.
i almost fell asleep during the community college courses, because there was almost no academic rigor to the courses. the grading was easy, there were few writing assignments and they were short, and the tests required almost no critical thinking the answers to the tests were almost obvious. i think that it is obvious that the bsn education is far superior to the adn education.
every module i had required a load of papers, article reviews, care studies and case studies. my health assessment paper was 30 pages long (apa format). we visited senior centers and community health agencies and wrote papers on those visits also. i don't think anyone cat napped in class and critical thinking was emphasized throughout. i plan to get a bsn someday, before age 65 anyway....... can't be much harder but i too wonder about the statistics!!! if calculus is required i'm doomed
Jan 26, '07Occupation: pulling patients back from The Light Specialty: pulling patients back from The Light ; From: US ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 10,813; Likes: 25,299Quote from dijaqrnI would have responded to the post you just responded to if I had seen it first. Clearly, the person who was able to catnap during classes and had minimal assignments and pitiful testing requirements did not attend MY program, lol....the very idea that it was "easy" is a joke in itself. Actually, it's known for its toughness, and that's not to say other schools in the region are easy, far from it. ALL the ADN programs I'm aware of in my region are grueling, with academic requirements above any of the other Associates' programs the school offered, and clinical assignments that caused most of us to become insomniacs or medicated. Or both.ADN programs must differ alot!!!!!!!!!!
Every module I had required a load of papers, article reviews, care studies and case studies. My health assessment paper was 30 pages long (APA format). We visited senior centers and community health agencies and wrote papers on those visits also. I don't think anyone cat napped in class and critical thinking was emphasized throughout. I plan to get a BSN someday, before age 65 anyway....... can't be much harder but I too wonder about the statistics!!! If calculus is required I'm doomed
No one in my class has ever had difficulty in landing a job, either; employers know what we survived!
Feb 1, '07Occupation: RN, ER Case management, precertification. Specialty: ICU-Stepdown ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 862; Likes: 53I know the CC I went to sure didn't have any 'cakewalk' courses. The ENTIRE ADN Program was grueling. We worked our tails off -doubly so when you considder that with few exceptions, we all had regular full-time jobs as well. Each section of the program was filled with research, each section tested not only the current info, but the previous stuff as well (anything was fair game, so you didn't 'get soft' on things you had already passed) -we had papers, live presentations to perform, and the usual stuff that all programs have (the clinicals -both in school practicals as well as hospital-based).
Now, my CC was considdered one of the more difficult ones, but I don't know of anyone who claims their ADN program was easy, or that they had time to catnap. Thats just plain insulting, and reeks of someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.
Feb 2, '07Joined: Jun '06; Posts: 13; Likes: 7So how is this helping the nursing shortage again?.......
Feb 4, '07Occupation: Inservice Education Coordinator Specialty: 22 year(s) of experience in Geriatrics and Quality Improvement, ; From: US ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 280; Likes: 247Ive been a nurse in NY for 14 years, and they have been talking about this since I graduated. Will it come to pass? Who knows, but if it does, NY better be prepared to pay more for all RN's having BS degrees. Also, in my training, we did management, but if you didnt know your clinical, you werent gunna pass anyway. Ya cant manage to do your dressings/bedside care, ya cant manage other people.
Feb 5, '07Occupation: Registered Nurse with a Travel company and also do Local Agency contracts. Specialty: 28 year(s) of experience in ICU's,TELE,MED- SURG ; Joined: Dec '01; Posts: 349; Likes: 13In 10 years I hope to be retiring. If not, I'm sure they'll grandfather me in.
Feb 5, '07Occupation: Nurse Specialty: LTC ; From: US ; Joined: Feb '06; Posts: 90; Likes: 10Quote from brianSounds like a good way to INCREASE the nursing shortage.But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse.
New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN certification-a step that critics worry could serve as a body blow to a profession already facing a severe shortage.
Under the state Board of Nursing proposal, RNs with associate's degrees would have to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, or their RN certifications would be downgraded to that of licensed practical nurse. That would make nursing somewhat like teaching in New York state; certified K-12 teachers need master's degrees or must obtain one within three years of starting a job. It would also add years and thousands of dollars to the difficulty of becoming an RN...
Full Article: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0...IOG_news.shtml
Feb 5, '07Occupation: Nurse tech Specialty: 1 year(s) of experience in ER, telemetry ; Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 34; Likes: 3I truly feel sorry for NY if they implement this. With the shortages coming in the next few years, NY will be further behind the rest of the country, forced to pay outrageous bonuses for signing. I say, same test -- same license. I was admitted to two nursing schools, one a 2 year program, one a 4 year BSN program and I chose the 2 year program because the clinical time I got to learn real application was almost twice the hours of the 4 year program and I knew from many nurses that the BSN school taught in orientation the things a "real" nurse was above doing. I lost a good friend who chose the 4 year program and was discouraged from associating from those not "pursuing excellence".
I work with some very fine nurses from both programs but the favorites of both the patients and the doctors are those from the associates program, which incidently has a higher passing rate on the NCLEX.
I'm not saying a BSN is bad, but it certainly doesn't qualify nurses to stand in a different class when they only meet the same standards. Go for it NY!! The law of supply and demand will quickly teach you a lesson. Master's don't make good teachers, BSN's don't make good nurses.
Feb 6, '07Occupation: RN, ER Case management, precertification. Specialty: ICU-Stepdown ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 862; Likes: 53I would certainly take issue with the comment that bsns don't make good nurses. A little over half of the nurses I know are BSNs, and they seem to make just as good a nurse as those of us who are not BSNs. I think that would be more of an "each according to his/her gifts" than a comment on schooling. They have more managerial training than we do, but they certainly had to take the same nurses courses (medically speaking) as we did, and had to have at least the minimum level of practical time (as mandated by the SBON). Blanket statements like that (BSNs don't make good nurses) serve nothing but to agitate. They are certainly easy enough to prove false.
Feb 6, '07Occupation: Nurse tech Specialty: 1 year(s) of experience in ER, telemetry ; Joined: Apr '06; Posts: 34; Likes: 3Reread the line. The point being made was that a masters degree doesn't make a good teacher and a BSN degree doesn't make a good nurse. I know good nurses with each degree and I know bad nurses with each degree. It's not the degree that determines good or bad so why would a state start to mandate that one degree is better than another. Again, I repeat, a BSN (degree) does NOT make a nurse good.
Feb 6, '07Occupation: RN, ER Case management, precertification. Specialty: ICU-Stepdown ; Joined: Dec '02; Posts: 862; Likes: 53my apologies. I misunderstood the point