NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees

Students ADN/BSN

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  • Specializes in CCU, Geriatrics, Critical Care, Tele.

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leslie :-D

11,191 Posts

i wrote to the mna and asked what incentive was there for me to get my bsn, if i had no plans of leaving the bedside?

the response?

magnet hospitals had to have 50% of their rns w/bsns.

and those hospitals trying to attain magnet status, were targeting bsn nurses to work there.

that's all.

and she said for me to call her; i'm sure to try and make me a member.

not a great incentive imo.

leslie

zenman

1 Article; 2,806 Posts

All this is making my head spin!

Please, everyone, stop beating each other up!

Now, you know that won't happen till we have one entry level, LOL! In countries that have only one entry level, some of them developing countries, you don't see such arguments. Here, as one poster said, we fight to maintain the minimum standards. We also ask, "what's the incentive to get a BSN?" For myself, the incentive was not to get by with the minimum, but to exceed that. For some strange reason, I found that the sociology courses, etc. and even that management course, better prepared me for the bedside. Really strange.

A good analogy might be boot camp. It doesn't matter what you come in with, you are going to all have the same basic training and function as a team.

Indy, LPN, LVN

1,444 Posts

Specializes in ICU, telemetry, LTAC.

Allright, I'm gonna try this again and hope the computer keeps me logged in long enough to take it.

I have been of the opinion that the diploma nurses had the best entry to practice, due to the high amount of clinical experience, longer rotations in multiple hospital areas, etc. along with the three years of school. And because they had a hospital backing instead of a college or university partnership and course catalog, the graduates of those schools have gotten the short end of the stick; great education and no degree to show for it. At least us ADN's can bridge to a BSN if we can pay for it; most universities don't accept squat from a diploma program for credit.

Which brings up my next point. Nursing is a unique profession. I feel free to call it a profession simply because it is unique. It isn't a lot of things, but a lot of other jobs have elements present in nursing. It is the only job in the medical field that requires personnel 24/7, 365 days a year. Not even MD's are required to monitor a patient so thoroughly, and be responsible for every single little picky thing concerning that patient. They will eventually leave the surgical suite, PT only sees 'em for thirty minutes a day, pharmacy has to send the right meds for sure, management needs to make sure we get paid and scheduled, etc. However, the bedside nurse is responsible for the rest of it.

So. We're unique. Why don't universities take our uniqueness into consideration when deciding what counts as credit? Experience should count, certifications should count. Period. We should be recognized and respected for doing the dirtiest of jobs and doubly so if we want a degree in doing this dirty, wonderful, demanding job.

That being said, I still think I might get my BSN sometime and I'm not holding my breath for such changes to take place. But I'll tell anyone who will listen what I think of the need to bend my life around school yet again, when it was pretty hellacious the first time.

sushiart

11 Posts

Re: the issue with Canadian nurses and the BSN req.---would that not have something to do with the nature of the healthcare system there and why they prefer to work in the US?

Has anyone discussed that?

ZASHAGALKA, RN

3,322 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care.

http://www.nursingworld.org/ojin/topic18/tpc18_3.htm

Regarding distinctions between BSN/ADN RNs:

"Although a number of models for differentiating nursing roles have been proposed, they have been difficult to implement in health care areas where identical licensure implies that "a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. Attempts to identify variables that can distinguish educational preparation in practice settings have yielded few that can be easily measured."

The BSN-entry debate is CLEARLY an example of 'be careful what you wish for'.

AS soon as BSN becomes standard, the new finding will be that BSNs are the 'technical' nurses to the APN's 'professional' nursing.

And the difference between the silly claim claim of a 'professional/technical' relationship between BSN/ADN and one between BSN-entry/APN is that there already exists the 'differentiated nursing roles' between BSN and APN to make such a designation stick.

So, just like what happened to PT when they outstripped their work supply with their education requirements, the 'professional' APNs will be the supervisors to bedside BSN 'technical' nursing.

All those pathways and doors currently opened by BSN - OF COURSE they will be 'kicked upstairs' to the 'professional' APNs.

And, since BSNs are clearly, by differentiated roles, less of a nurse than the true professionals, the APNs - well they aren't worth as much. Since we already have true 'professional' nurses in management, the bedside 'technical' BSNs should be paid LESS.

Why paid less? Differentiation means that APNs must be paid more and that creates a differential so that the actual bedside providers are paid less. This is EXACTLY what happened with PT/OT. Sure their higher education meant that PT/OT salaries went WAY up. But. Hospitals subsidized that cost by having the ACTUAL care now be provided by 'techs'. And those 'techs' are paid much less. In actuality, hospitals are happy with this arrangement as it DECREASED the overall costs of PT/OT services.

Just like the 'tech' BSN nurse that will be providing bedside nursing in this 'idealistic' future will decrease overall nursing costs. . .

Don't think it could happen? Read below . . .

(from the same link above, a PRO-BSN link):

"Doors to future educational changes should be kept open, but moving education to the BSN level is the first step. Noting the increasing complexity of health care, some nurse leaders are concerned that a baccalaureate degree is no longer sufficient preparation for practice. They advocate master's or even doctoral level education and abandonment of the Registered Nurse title in favor of an advanced practice role that is clearly distinguished from entry into practice at the associate degree level. While raising the educational bar even higher can possibly be justified in terms of the knowledge base needed for advancing professional practice, we need to pay attention to past lessons and view with caution any proposed solution that would further split the profession and separate nurses with college degrees from the ranks of bedside caregivers."

Read that last sentence carefully: the problem with this future is that any such proposals must be designed so as not to further separate nurses with college degrees from being bedside caregivers. How could it be designed that way? Limit BSNs scope to only work in a technical capacity AT THE BEDSIDE. And because of THAT limitation, salaries should and will also be commensurately limited.

~faith,

Timothy.

Cochise RN

1 Post

Specializes in ER, ICU, PACU, LTAC.

When I got my ADN in NY State 26 years ago, they were saying the same thing then about requiring only BSN RNs. Not much has changed...The wheels of progress move slow...

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
Re: the issue with Canadian nurses and the BSN req.---would that not have something to do with the nature of the healthcare system there and why they prefer to work in the US?

Has anyone discussed that?

And the reason that the BSN requirement failed in North Dakota is????- with a US healthcare system.

Canadian systems at very minimum covers everyone for care - delayed and slow at times but it covers them - unlike the USA where many of our patients do not pay a dime, and those that are well insured are charged significantly less than those that are not (due to group rate negotiations).

arita2

23 Posts

Specializes in Geriatrics, Gen Med.

I don't care how it hashes out as long as BSNs get more considerably more pay for their higher education. When that happens, people will find a way to continue on in their studies to the BSN level, guaranteed!: )

RNsRWe, ASN, RN

3 Articles; 10,428 Posts

I don't care how it hashes out as long as BSNs get more considerably more pay for their higher education. When that happens, people will find a way to continue on in their studies to the BSN level, guaranteed!: )

And as long as a BSN RN and an ADN RN are doing the exact same floor nurse job, that's not gonna happen.

want2scuba

11 Posts

As long as they don't make it an immediate requirement, it wouldn't be so bad. If they tried to do that in California, it would be a disaster. California has 70 ADN programs versus 20 BSNs. Talk about a nursing shortage.

I'm not sure why any bachelor's would do. The study they cited examined BSNs, so that would seem to thwart the primary justification for all of this.

Just about every state university in California has either implemented an online ADN-BSN program or has plans to do so. So, given a 10 year time frame, that hopefully wouldn't be too bad since you have to do continuing education anyway. Those programs are cheaper too, and most employers pay for them.

I tend to agree with this somewhat, but I think it should probably be a BSN requirement, not any bachelors. Hell, I could go get a bachelor's in home ecomonics and that would supposedly make me a better nurse?

:lol2:

They have to be talking about a BSN. I have a BA in Journalism. How would that make me a better nurse? I just got finished with chemistry. It was the hardest class I've ever taken. That includes any class I ever took to get my BA in Journalism.

A friend of mine, who is a supervisor at Northwestern Hospital in Chicago, is working on her BSN online through the University of Phoenix. She said that it isn't half as hard as the work she did getting her Associate of Science degree in Nursing. She just wants to get her BSN, though.

She wants to be a Nurse Practitioner, and travel around to third world countries providing them with medical care. That is what she is doing with her vacations right now. I'm glad that there are people out there like her. I'm just not one of them.

My vacations have to include scuba diving. That does more to relax me than anything.

RNsRWe, ASN, RN

3 Articles; 10,428 Posts

A friend of mine, who is a supervisor at Northwestern Hospital in Chicago, is working on her BSN online through the University of Phoenix. She said that it isn't half as hard as the work she did getting her Associate of Science degree in Nursing. She just wants to get her BSN, though.

This is off-topic, but how does your friend like their program? I'm comparing that one to Excelsior, with only propaganda in front of me, and some input would be nice!

want2scuba

11 Posts

This is off-topic, but how does your friend like their program? I'm comparing that one to Excelsior, with only propaganda in front of me, and some input would be nice!

I actually thinks she enjoys it. I'll ask her more about it. I know she has had to write tons of papers. She used to have me proof her papers. Now she has gotten so good at writing, she doesn't need my help.

Like I said, she says working online toward her BSN is much easier than the work she did to get her Associate of Science degree as an RN.

Here in Chicago, we have University of Phoenix buildings. I really don't know much about that. I know she pays out-of-state tuition.

She has tomorrow off. I'll ask her more about their program.:typing

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