sushiart

Re: the issue with Canadian nurses and the BSN req.---would that not have something to do with the nature of the healthcare system there and why they prefer to work in the US? Has anyone discussed that?

Once again...advocate the absolute minimum requirements to do our job. Thats sure to impress, the paper pushers and provide future change. Good thinking. When will the AS crowd realize, its not about how good of a nurse you are, etc---Nursing is something all of us agree is based on experience, not our formal education...But, its about a standard entry level and something considered "professional" to advance us along with ALL of the other BS mandated fields. But nah, we just need the bare essentials to keep us trucking on. Why bother changing, right? Not like anyone is going to fix it...I mean a workforce of BSN grads wouldnt have the power to change anything right? We would be just as much of a weak voice for the profession I am sure. Good logic, there.

Ok...first off, I will apologize for the "shoddy 2 yr" comment. I agree that sciences at a CC can be just as well done as a 4 yr. The comment was aimed really at something else. So lets move on. Now...How can nurses get unified? Whats the deal with Unions, etc? Why have we no voice? And who is going to take the reins here and bring us all together for better conditions? And honestly...I dont mean to sound naive but I know this is---Other than abandonment issues...why cant we "walk out" a la the hispanics over the immigration issues? Imagine the fear and change that could inspire? Someone tell me why nursing hasnt done these things please...I want to really know. J

PEOPLE...ITS NOT ABOUT HOW "Good" a ASN vs BSN nurse is...for goodness sake! It's the perception from the outside and inside people!!! Which we all know is reality! I am SURE plenty of AS educated nurses are SUPERIOR to some BSN and vice versa. But lets be frank here...a professional job requires a professional degree. Get a AS? fine...now go on to get a BS, why is that so bad? Yes there has to be some better incentives, but that can only be done if there is a division of what needs to be done versus what should be done, if you get my drift. Keep the AS....stay as respected as one who may do a great job, but still put in 2 yrs of classes. Look at the other people in the hospitals, etc...BS this, MS that...And we as the largest and most influential career grouping have this horrible conflict in regards to education. Get a BS...move up the ladder. See the trend? Why does a BSN have the ability to move on up the career ladder? CRNA, NP, etc...and so on. Why can a AS not do the same if they are both equal in job skills? If we cant get agreement on how we need to be looked upon by the rest of the medical professionals who hold higher degrees...we all might as well just keep staying stagnant and just be happy we can churn out enough AS nurses so they can fill the vacant spots the ones prior left for them. Keep getting them into schools like cannon fodder if you will, they dont need to have higher aspirations to become more than a AS RN right? Why bother? Whats gonna change? They wont be paid better, etc... This is the downfall of nursing IMO. You all seem to just want to bandage a problem and not really fix it. Fine, good for you and your self serving needs because it wont effect you for many years or at all. Now the rest of us shall (should) lead the profession as a united WHOLE into a new era of respect for the future. I agree wholeheartedly (sp?) that we need to earn respect as a RN, degree or not. But we need more leaders and BSN's to lend clout to the fight to change this, thats just how things work and are viewed. Sorry. If someone has another idea of how to move our profession forward sans a BSN dominated profession I would love to hear it...

Well done, catching my spelling errors, yet you also have some...but thats neither here nor there right now. As for "shoddy 2 yr education" yes...thats how anyone in professional positions looks at a AS degree...wise up and open your eyes here. Its not an insult, its a fact of educational and workplace culture. We work around tons of people with a 4 yr BS and more, why would they respect a 2 yr AS degree they know has minimum requirements to get in and out,and a woeful lack of support, etc...I have seen both personally inside and out and there is no way I would agree a AS degree is as proficient as a BS overall. Sorry, just not so. All things being equal that is. I will continue this later on, but I had to get that in. Cant wait to hear all the good things you guys will say. :)

If the 4 yr degree thing for foreign nurses is true...how long till they wise up to it and get them in droves...undercutting moreso into the job market. Its a matter of simple Econ 101...

Well look at the sorry state of Nursing and tell me how a BSN hurts the fight to get better wages, etc? Are you afraid of school...the rigors of a 4yr education--God forbid Nursing takes a leap into higher standards for all aspects and not just clinicals, etc... Well...good news, you dont have to worry about it! I am talking about FUTURE requirements, not you. Unless you somehow feel this infringes upon your rights as a AS nurse...do tell me. I never said the skills of a AS nurse were bad or under par by any means, I think plenty of then rock and do a fantastic job...just that not having a 4 yr degree and trying to pass as professional in this day and age is a joke to most everyone in any type of power position. One position, in which nurses are not...and will never be without a better barganing chip so to say. Try re-reading my post and making an educated reply, rather than a gut reaction one. Thanks. And dont try to pull the high card with "I have done so and so for X yrs" therefore a AS is fine...Thats not what I am getting at. :)

I believe that if Nurses wish to be paid and treated as professionals they need to have a higher standard of education period. I do agree that nurses without a BSN can be great...but the fact of tha matter is this...if we dont do anything to advance our standings professionally where are we left? I am all for grandfathering the established RN's, but all the incoming nurses NEED a BSN, period, to hold some leverage in our jobs, etc. Nurses in the future should all have a BSN, or else stay a LPN or CNA and work as such...A BSN allows us to be considered professional and have the background and abilities to indeed support it. A 4 yr degree is not a bad thing...change is good, especially in our case. Dont be a dinosaur and stay a doormat fighting it. Otherwise there are plenty of foreign nurses salivating to get a AS degree and take out more spots on low pay, crap standards, etc....Nurses need to make a stand, and without the "clout" of a BSN college degree and not from some shoddy 2 yr joke, we are not going to make it better for us or anyone in the future. Think of someone else other than you right now, while considering why this change is good. A strong case for higher wages and better working conditions will only be solved by 100% of the workforce holding a 4 yr degree and coming together in a soild unified front to fight for better professional pay and standards deserving. Truth is, a AS wont ever cut it as it is, except as a joke amongst those with BS degrees and higher. If you believe otherwise you are naive as they come. Its a cruel place, and we keep sticking our heads in the sand. :)

I dont wish to hijack this thread, so excuse this rude off tanget msg to Vermonster :) I saw you went through the BAT program at Decker, and well...I am going this May for it as well. Sooooo...I was wondering if you could be so kind to help me figure out some things and answer some questions, etc...let me know and I will get back to you :) Maybe you could send me a PM? Jon