NY State may require nurses to obtain 4-year degrees

Nursing Students ADN/BSN

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But some worry that an already severe shortage will become worse.

New York is mulling over a requirement that would force all RNs to earn a bachelor's degree in order to keep their RN certification-a step that critics worry could serve as a body blow to a profession already facing a severe shortage.

Under the state Board of Nursing proposal, RNs with associate's degrees would have to earn bachelor's degrees within 10 years, or their RN certifications would be downgraded to that of licensed practical nurse. That would make nursing somewhat like teaching in New York state; certified K-12 teachers need master's degrees or must obtain one within three years of starting a job. It would also add years and thousands of dollars to the difficulty of becoming an RN...

Full Article: http://www.rochesterdandc.com/news/0413BA3TIOG_news.shtml

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

NO they have not (kept education stagnant), and neither do nurses.

Dunno about you, but I have to keep up a LOT of continuing education to remain current in my field of Obstetrics, and certs as well. So no, my education is NOT stagnant. Nor would that of any actively-practicing nurse be so....

It would be easy to say oneday, if BSNs were the only RNs out there, that THEY are "stagnant" because they are not all getting their MSN or PhD.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
good grief linda.

how can you honestly profess such a generalized, disparaging statement?

are all adns/diploma nurses really that short-sighted and gullible?

if it wasn't so preposterous, i'd find it laughable.

whatever you think, my dear.

ITA

Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.
Many professions from those same countries are clamoring to come to the US. In Russia doctors don't have the status they would in this country.

America has always been the dream of many people around the world.

I think many times the influx from other countries doesn't lie in what is happening in the home country but what those people percieve to be their opportunities in the country. Maybe a misconception but still one they think will come to fruition.

And many times it has nothing to do with nursing. It has to do with freedom and opportunity.

Many of them struggle to come here but they sure aren't turned away. They only add to "our" numbers. And possibly prove that BSN entry would indeed improve the nursing shortage.

There is no health insurance in the Phillipines - I don't know about Russia.

No insurance = no health care = no jobs.

Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
There is no health insurance in the Phillipines - I don't know about Russia.

No insurance = no health care = no jobs.

In the Philippines, the hospitals are known to be seriously understaffed, and the positions are seriously underpaid. Much of the same can be said of facilities in Africa, India, Eastern Europe, etal.

I have heard ratios of 20 patients per nurse, but do not know as far as personal experience

The USA is under fire from the International community for "stealing" nurses from other nations/continents. They have serious shortages of their own, yet their nurses are coming here.

Lack of health insurance does not change the fact that people get sick. It merely changes what sort of reimbursement that there may be and how payment occurs. And interestly, in some places, they manage without it. Nursing and medicine did exist before insurance.

It also does not explain why nations with nationalized health services are losing nurses to the US. Even Canada, with its' Bachelor's requirement, and a shortage of nurses, still loses nurses to the USA.

The ultimate goal is spelled out in the most wicked and nasty of the BSN-entry indoctrinations:

BSN = 'professional' nurse

ADN = 'technical' nurse.

Maybe they are looking at history (1950s) when Mildred Montag did a doctoral dissertation, "The Education of Nursing Technicians" who were to assist the "professional" nurse. (Similar to what PTs and OTs have done today with PT and OT assistants.) The ADN came from this project and was geared to solve the nursing shortage. Of course any other profession knows this is the wrong way to solve a shortage.

Maybe they are looking at history (1950s) when Mildred Montag did a doctoral dissertation, "The Education of Nursing Technicians" who were to assist the "professional" nurse. (Similar to what PTs and OTs have done today with PT and OT assistants.) The ADN came from this project and was geared to solve the nursing shortage. Of course any other profession knows this is the wrong way to solve a shortage.

It was in fact, geared to solve the nursing shortage, and was not, what Montag had in mind.

She was quoted to have feared that ADN's and BSN's would end up being interchanged and indistguinishable.

Her concern became materialized, and right or wrong, an ADN by today's definition, is hardly any BSN's "technical assistant."

ADN's are far more independent with a broad scope of practice and can hardly be compared to PT and OT assistants.

And if in fact they are merely technical assistants, then where is the BSN who is supposed to be in charge of my patients every day? I don't see him/her anywhere.

And as others have said many professions are pushing for Master's entry. Do we really want to be the last group to jump on the bandwagon?

Interesting point.

As much as I see comments from some BSN's claiming that ADN's who do not rally for a minimum BSN requirement are "keeping the profession down" I often wonder how those same BSN's would react if MSN's began proclaiming that MSN's should be the minimum level of entry for RN licensure.

Would those BSN's then be labeled as "defensive" like the ADN's when trying to justify their place in the profession?

Asked this in another thread......

In countries where BSN is the one point of entry, how is it, nursing is still not respected as it should be, as a profession overall, and why are so many clamoring to practice here in the USA where ADN is the major point of entry to RN practice?

Have YET to hear anyone respond to this one.

I can only respond to this one in a sense that I work with a lot of Canadian nurses who migrated to TX.

Many are often under the impression that they were lured here for warm weather and fun in the sun.

However, many express to me on many days that they long to be back home and would do so in a heartbeat if the job opportunities came even close to what they enjoy in TX.

They all have BSN's where I work. Most come from a province that requires a BSN for RN licensure.

Those same provinces that require a BSN for licensure also offer a very dismal job market to accompany such a requirement.

Every Canadian nurse I work with tells me that no full time job opportunities are to be found in Canada. They all work part time so that benefits do not have to be paid.

There is a reason why so many Canadian nurses are here in Texas and it's not the warm weather.

So much for what a BSN requirement has done for them.

Specializes in ER, ICU, L&D, OR.

A Nurse by any other name is still a Nurse

Specializes in Critical Care.
Maybe they are looking at history (1950s) when Mildred Montag did a doctoral dissertation, "The Education of Nursing Technicians" who were to assist the "professional" nurse. (Similar to what PTs and OTs have done today with PT and OT assistants.) The ADN came from this project and was geared to solve the nursing shortage. Of course any other profession knows this is the wrong way to solve a shortage.

You say that the ADN "project" was geared to solve the nursing shortage. By that standard, so was the BSN "project". Both were geared to move nursing away from apprenticeships and towards college level preps.

ADN might have been designed to 'solve the nursing shortage' but it most certainly WAS NOT 'decreasing' the standards in a shortage. It was seen, even at the time, as an improvement.

The technical/professional garbage is just that. What those that envisioned such a design failed to realize was the great success of ADNs of producing 'professional' nurses.

But the marketplace and workplace didn't fail to realize this success: Indeed, in their first 25 yrs, ADN programs expanded from 0 to 700 programs. The reason why: it's huge success at making nurses.

The technical/professional distinction NEVER took off, and it was NEVER a valid description and it will NEVER BE a valid description. It is nothing short of a slur.

The ANA announced its BSN-entry plan in 1965

In 1978, it announced the goal to have legislation passed in every state to require BSN entry by 1985.

In 1982, it announced the goal to have legislation passed in every state to require BSN entry by 1995.

in 2002, it announced the goal to have legislation passed in every state to require 3/4ths of nurses to be BSN entry by 2010.

Only one state tried to pass such legislation, N. Dakota. N. Dakota, after more than 10 yrs effort, never got more than 55% BSN staffing in its hospitals, and so, abandoned the project and repealed the BSN-entry law as UNWORKABLE.

Until that time, NY was considering the legislation about which this thread is titled. While the attempts haven't died, N. Dakota's example of the UNWORKABILITY of such a law has ensured that the attempts will not be successful, in NY, or ANYWHERE else in the States.

So, as we approach 2010, expect the ANA to push back its date for inception of its 40 yr pipe dream another decade. And then another. And then another. And then, yes again, another decade.

60% of RNs are ADN graduates. Like their BSN PEERS, these nurses are the everyday professionals in the trenches.

Technical? Only those nurses that think their 'professionalism' is tied to a status they will never see in their lifetimes. If BSN-entry is the definition of a 'profession' then nursing will NEVER be a profession; and we are ALL 'technical' nurses.

http://www.nursingworld.org/ojin/topic18/tpc18_3.htm:

"Although a number of models for differentiating nursing roles have been proposed, they have been difficult to implement in health care areas where identical licensure implies that "a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. Attempts to identify variables that can distinguish educational preparation in practice settings have yielded few that can be easily measured."

"Some have argued that establishing the baccalaureate degree as the minimum requirement for entry into practice has racist implications because it presents an additional barrier to people of color who have not had equal access to higher education and could potentially be excluded from the benefits and status of professional nursing (Mason, Backer, & Georges, 1991)"

ADN programs put out twice as many blacks, twice as many men, twice as many native Americans and three times as many hispanics as BSN programs. Not to mention that ADN graduates are, on average, 8 yrs older than BSN grads. Not to mention that BSN programs are biased against 'non-traditional' students.

In all but one of the above criteria (age), nursing is seriously behind the 'community' averages. A decision to move nursing EVEN FURTHER away from the community's makeup cannot be seen as an 'improvement'. Bland reassurances to 'fix' said problems cannot be taken at face value, as the problem is ALREADY endemic; changing the standards WOULD ONLY MAKE IT WORSE.

No, the BSN entry MUST first address its inherent diversity problems BEFORE attempting to make these unaddressed problems 'universal' to nursing.

~faith,

Timothy.

I can only respond to this one in a sense that I work with a lot of Canadian nurses who migrated to TX.

Many are often under the impression that they were lured here for warm weather and fun in the sun.

However, many express to me on many days that they long to be back home and would do so in a heartbeat if the job opportunities came even close to what they enjoy in TX.

They all have BSN's where I work. Most come from a province that requires a BSN for RN licensure.

Those same provinces that require a BSN for licensure also offer a very dismal job market to accompany such a requirement.

Every Canadian nurse I work with tells me that no full time job opportunities are to be found in Canada. They all work part time so that benefits do not have to be paid.

There is a reason why so many Canadian nurses are here in Texas and it's not the warm weather.

So much for what a BSN requirement has done for them.

Exactly why I'm working in Michigan. I would not have been able to work full-time as an RN in Canada where I live or have the job opportunities that I do now. What they are offering is part-time, yet they will want you to work full-time hours without the benefits that goes with being full-time (dental, prescriptions, optometry, etc), or even better (insert sarcasm) they will offer "temporary part-time" or "temporary full-time" that they can have go on indefinately.

Specializes in Critical Care.

This below is a telling statement: it would be easy to expand BSN programs in a BSN entry environment because most ADN instructors are Masters prepared and could easily be incorporated into expanding BSN programs.

Say that again?

ADN programs are composed of BSN-comparable instruction!

Telling comment, indeed. Mind you, this article is PRO-BSN entry:

http://www.nursingworld.org/ojin/topic18/tpc18_3.htm

"Agreement about BSN requirement for entry into practice should disenfranchise no one. Qualified nursing faculty are a vital resource. The majority of associate degree nursing educators have masters degrees and many have doctorates and are thus qualified to teach in baccalaureate programs. With projections that the current faculty shortage will worsen, it is inconceivable that experienced and capable teachers will be unemployed if the educational requirement for entry into practice is raised to the baccalaureate level. Faculty in associate degree and baccalaureate programs have generally taught in isolation from one another, however, educational philosophies aside, they have much in common. They have attended the same graduate schools, spent hours developing curricula and writing learning objectives, agonized over failing students, and written voluminous self-studies. When the demand arises, they can learn to teach together. Grenier and Dewis (1995) describe the successful assimilation of faculty from a university and a hospital school of nursing in the development of a joint baccalaureate program in Canada."

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