Reasons Why YOU Won't Join A Union

Nurses Union

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I'll admit it. I'm not a nurse. I did want to be a nurse at one time, but now Im going the RT route. I researched nursing for a long time before making the decision NOT to become one. Considering the fact that most of you complain (on here at least) of not getting fair treatment, of getting cursed out by doctors/patients, of being overstressed, overworked and not getting they pay you feel you deserve, why oh why won't you join a union? Why do you come here to vent about administration or policies when it doesn't have to be that way? I want to know what makes you feel that you don't deserve to be heard.

Iron workers have a union, boiler-makers have a union, auto workers have a union. Not to sound holier-than-thou-, but most RN have more education than those that I've previously mentioned. So, why is it that you refuse to unite, and stand against a system that seems to disrespect you? I have to know.

SB

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I don't want to get beat up for not staying in lock-step with whatever the union bosses have decided to do. Getting buried under the in-zone of a football field is not the future I want.

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I would definitely join a union. You can thank labor unions for your 40 hr work wk (as opposed to 140 hrs!). And also thank them for having a weekend, before labor unions people worked EVERY day of the week for up to 16 hours a day. No vacation, no sick pay, no maternity leave, etc, etc.

I feel that unions are maligned a lot of the time, BUT in the end, power comes in numbers, individuals rarely make sweeping changes happen.

I know of a lot of nursing unions. I guess I just don't know of a national nursing union. Which is too bad, because there are waaaay more nurses than there are doctors and the AMA (not techinically a union) has thwarted the health of this nation for a hundred years. If nurses came together under then same united banner that doctors have for so long as a political lobbying force, we would have had universal health care by now.

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Specializes in Day Surgery, Agency, Cath Lab, LTC/Psych.

I won't join a union for several reasons. First of all, unions are heavily political. I do not want my union dues going to candidates that my union supports but I don't personally agree with.

Secondly, I feel that if nurses want to be treated like a PROFESSION they should start acting professional. IMO unions are not professional. You mention boiler-makers and iron workers as members of unions and that is very true. Both of those occupations are trades, not professions. I believe one of the reasons nurses don't get the respect they would like is because they are viewed as vocationally-trained help instead of professionals.

I would like to add the caveat, though, that I am grateful for the benefits that unions have provided us and the pioneering efforts they have made to make the workplace safer.

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I won't apply for ANY non union position. As to the criticisms about political advocacy my point is that unions like any other organization are run by the people who show up to meetings. If you don't agree with a position taken by the union look in the mirror? Did you attend our meetings? Did you submit proposals?

Unions are small d organizations. If you don't bring your ideas forward then you have no standing to complain.

Professionalism is not incompatible with union membership. (See AMA, ABA etc. for examples of professional unions.)

In Solidarity....

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Specializes in ED, ICU, Heme/Onc.

Police officers have unions and they are considered professionals. They require a batchelor's degree for most departments and more than that if you ever want to move into a supervisory position.

I have a friend who is a physician in Australia. They are unionized over there and is shocked that it isn't compulsatory here as well. And these are the docs and we can universally agree that no matter where you are in the world, docs are considered *professionals*, unionized or not.

Despite the valid negatives that come along with having a union, I like that there are cut and dry rules that both the employee and management are held accountable for. "Shared governance" means nothing other than your professional life is at the whim of management.

Even union "bullies" need to play by the by-laws. And after reading a copy of the letter sent to upper managment by the union addressing the issue of "answering the phone with a smile in my voice" and the scripting of patient interactions being detrimental to patient care for all of the patients in a particular nurse's assigment, I'm quite comfortable having the union there if I ever needed it. I'm dying to see the response letter.

Blee

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Specializes in ER, Infusion therapy, Oncology.
I won't apply for ANY non union position. As to the criticisms about political advocacy my point is that unions like any other organization are run by the people who show up to meetings. If you don't agree with a position taken by the union look in the mirror? Did you attend our meetings? Did you submit proposals?

Unions are small d organizations. If you don't bring your ideas forward then you have no standing to complain.

Professionalism is not incompatible with union membership. (See AMA, ABA etc. for examples of professional unions.)

In Solidarity....

The post made by Dolce was correct. Union dues do go to endorse canidates that a lot of people do not agree with. You can say showing up to meetings will change the status quo, but it has been my personal experience that it will not. Unions ALWAYS endorse Democrats. Unions and any other organization that have such a diverse population of members should not endorse one political canidate over another. Professionalism is not incompatible with union membership, but not voting Democrat is.

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Specializes in ER, PCU, ICU.

No unions for me.

- Seniority blows: When it comes to getting the best positions, shifts, and vacation time, time in service should have no bearing.

- My union dues do what, exactly? No choice, no thanks.

- I can stand up for myself. If I screw up and get an ass chewing by some doc and/or patient, I'll take my licks... I have a thick skin, something I think relatively few nurses have. However, if I don't screw up and get an ass chewing just for doing my job, you can bet that doctor and patient will get an attitude adjustment followed by a formal complaint to the hospital administration. If you haven't practiced your, "excuse me and with all due respect doctor..." speech, that's your fault.

- As mentioned, unions are for the trades, not professionals. The AMA and ABA are NOT unions, they are associations. If these associations told their members to go on strike, they'd get laughed into oblivion. Do these associations provide a retirement to their members?

I have no issues with the AMA, ABA or groups like them, but I choose to take responsibility for my own career choices. If I don't think I'm being treated fairly, I'll address it, rectify it, or find another job. If I don't think I'm being paid enough, I'll go find another job. Compared to other lines of work, RNs probably have the largest number of career opportunities within a profession.

I believe if we're going to elevate how the public views RNs and the work we do, we need to be professionals and act like one. When was the last time you heard a doc whine about being treated unfairly, overwhelming paperwork, or having to see 40 patients in one day? I've heard them talk about it, but never whine.

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Specializes in ER, PCU, ICU.

Additionally, I think unions foster mediocrity.

I have several teacher friends that belong to the CTA. They are dedicated, excellent teachers who often spend a significant amount of their own money and invest a lot of their own time into their kids. They don't get paid overtime for the additional efforts they put in, in fact one teacher's contract says she only has to work from 0730 to 1415, she gets a 1 hour lunch break and one period without kids. She's actually with her students only 5 hours each day and gets 3 months off in summer and 2 1/2 weeks at Christmas ... and that's established by contract. Oh yeah, and she doesn't have to pay into social security.

The one friend I'm talking about puts in far more time than that, without a doubt, but her contract says that she doesn't have to. According to her, there are a number of tenured teachers who only do the minimums... we're paying those teachers north of $60k a year for 25 hours work a week, 8 1/2 months a year.

Good return on the investment?

Another reason I'm down on unions is because I've heard the, "it's not my job" line too many times. As a new nurse, I worked at a hospital where the aids were union, but the RNs weren't. Post mortem care was NOT in their job description. The PCU with a 1:3 ratio was slammed one night when my palliative care pt finally expired. I had a full code trach/vent/PEG that was on the bubble so I asked an aid (who was doing her online training) to get the morgue litter and move the body downstairs. The answer I got? You guessed it.

From that point on, I vowed I'd never work in a union.

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diveRN :yeah: :bow: I couldn't have said it better.

I start my RN-BSN program shortly and the first class is Professional Nursing.

Nursing is, according to my text, is more accurately classified as an "emerging profession."

Characteristics of a Profession:

1. Authority to control its own work

2. Exclusively unique body of knowledge

3. Extensive period of formal training

4. Specialized competence

5. Control over work performance

6. Service to society

7. Self-regulation

8. Credentialing systems to certify competence

9. Legal reinforcement of professional standards.

10. Ethical practice

11. Creation of a collegial subculture

12. Intrinsic rewards

13. Public acceptance

"Unfortunately, nursing fails to have a standardized education for entry into the profession. Like many other professions, professional nursing requires that its members have intelligence, deep personal commitment, mutually shared valued, and specialized skill to make autonomous decisions to serve society."

Not to start a debate about our education . . . . :D

I don't see anything about union membership. :coollook:

steph

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The post made by Dolce was correct. Union dues do go to endorse canidates that a lot of people do not agree with. You can say showing up to meetings will change the status quo, but it has been my personal experience that it will not. Unions ALWAYS endorse Democrats. Unions and any other organization that have such a diverse population of members should not endorse one political canidate over another. Professionalism is not incompatible with union membership, but not voting Democrat is.

Not always true. In my former union MAPE. (mape.org) Candidates from both political parties were invited to seek endorsement by the Union. Republican candidates were endorsed on occasion for individual state legislative districts.

In any event Republican candidates tend to endorse proposals that are harmful to the interests of working families. (OT eligibility restiction, Kentucky River, restrictions on the right to collectively bargain to improve conditions.) Work for changes within the Republican Party that make it more palatable to the union.

As I said before if you don't like a particular candidate that is endorsed by your union there is no obligation to vote for that candidate. For that matter make the case to your union membership to endorse your candidate of choice.

In any event the purpose of the union is for members to collectively bargain for improved wages and working conditions. That does occasionally call for the union to actively protect the laws that protect those hard fought battles through political activism.

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Aren't unions really for blue collar and other lower paid workers? Why would professionals want or need a union?

A Many professionals believe there is a basic antagonism between unionism and their profession. They have a picture of unions as adversarial - picking fights or imposing work rules that will limit employees as well as management.

Professionals are employees who have the same problems as other workers. Every high tech employee, for example, needs a decent wage, the guarantee of fair benefits, protection from unjust treatment, respect, recognition of skills, education, and expertise, whether they meet the legalistic definition of "professional" or not.

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The reality is that professional employees are increasingly losing control of their work life. At non-union worksites management makes all the decisions concerning the wages, benefits, and working conditions for professional employees. This is generating conflict between employees concerned about the delivery of their professional services, and human resource managers who appear more concerned with the bottom line. These professional employees are turning increasingly to unions to protect their interests. Today, roughly two-thirds of all unionized white-collar employees are professionals. Their level of unionization exceeds that of the workforce as a whole. (Details about the white collar workforce can be found in the DPE's publication "Current Statistics on White Collar Employees: 2000 Edition ".)

Q But isn't it "unprofessional" to join a union?

A Academy Award winners Tom Hanks, Susan Sarandon and Kevin Spacey don't think so. Neither do Grammy Award winners Tony Bennett and Carlos Santana. World renowned physicist Albert Einstein and the late Pulitzer Prize winning, Washington Post Cartoonist HerBlock were also prominent union members. These are just a handful of artists, scientists, journalists, educators and others who have been at the top of their profession and who have strongly supported their unions. Union-member professionals are also teachers, college professors, nurses, TV broadcasters, librarians in your local community.

Unions and their white-collar workers helps preserve professional integrity and respect on the job. An employee of a large corporation frequently loses professional autonomy in the corporate bureaucracy. The professional is not always free to offer independent judgments based solely on professional considerations. Indeed, without a proper contract and a union to police it, employees may be fired or penalized for offering a view that is at odds with their supervisors. Nothing could be less professional.

According to the US Department of Labor, over three million professional and technical employees are already participating in collective bargaining organizations. This constitutes approximately 50% of those professional employees eligible for union membership (i.e. neither managerial nor self-employed). Represented are such varied practitioners as musicians, doctors, nurses, actors, broadcasters, school teachers, college professors and engineers.

Q Ok, let's talk specifics--what about bread and butter issues like wages and salaries. Is there any difference between working union versus non-union?

A Women and men who belong to unions bring home bigger paychecks than non-union workers. With union representation, workers earn 34 percent more than unrepresented workers, according to the U.S. Department of Labor. This "union advantage"--more money in union members' paychecks--exists in almost every occupation, from service and factory workers to clerical and professional employees. Today's unions mean even more for women and minorities. Union women earn 40 percent more than non-union women, African American union members earn 44 percent more and for Latino workers,

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the "union advantage" is a whopping 53 percent! So it doesn't cost to join a union , it actually pays and pays well!

Q How about benefits--are they any better?

A Union families have much better benefits:

* Some 85 percent of union workers in large and medium-sized workplaces have employer-provided health care benefits, compared with only 74 percent of unrepresented workers.

* If injury or illness keeps us off the job, nearly two-thirds of union workers (63 percent) have short-term disability benefits, compared with less than half (47 percent) of unrepresented workers.

* On pensions, union members are much more likely to enjoy secure retirement benefits. Nearly eight in 10 union workers--compared with about four in 10 non-union workers--have "defined-benefit" pension plans, which are federally insured and provide a guaranteed monthly benefit. And, because union members are better paid during our working years, we earn larger pensions--and have a better chance to save for retirement.

What about job security--do the unions make a difference here too?

A Besides protecting workers from arbitrary employer actions relating to discipline and dismissals, because unions make jobs better union members are more likely to stay at their jobs than non-union workers. That's one reason why six out of every 10 union members have been with the same employer for 10 years or more--compared with only three of every 10 unrepresented workers. Better training, lower turnover and workers' voice in decision-making about how work gets done also mean that unions increase productivity, according to most recent studies.

Q What can a union offer me on things like working conditions, hours of work, etc.?

A Union contracts often provide for fair and flexible working hours, better pay for overtime and work on evenings and weekends, more paid holidays, paid family and medical leave and employer help with child care and elder care. Besides your union contract, unions lobby for better laws and programs to help America's working families. Unions were a major force behind passage of the Family and Medical Leave Act and are working hard for improved child care, elder care and other policies. With today's unions, working people have a better chance to balance not only our family budgets--but our family schedules as well. At a time when balancing the demands of jobs and families is a challenge for most working Americans, today's unions help working women and men gain some control over our lives.

Q As a professional, my training has taught be to be a problem solver. Does the collective bargaining process always have to be adversarial?

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A No it doesn't. However, in the "new economy" it is incumbent upon both sides--labor and management--to devise new ways to bargain. The emergence of new and innovative models of collective bargaining is already underway. The American economy is in the throes of dynamic change - from blue collar to white, from manufacturing to service, from low skill to high, from hands to brains. In the process, technological change is widening the scope of collective bargaining as professional employees increasingly are demanding a voice in the workplace and a say in their futures.

For example, recently seven national unions--all DPE affiliates--representing over 64,000 front-line care givers covered by more than 20 local unions bargained collectively with Kaiser Permanente, one of the nation's largest health care providers. In a historic five-year agreement, their front line health care workers will have a greater voice in the crucial decisions affecting the quality of patient care at Kaiser facilities. In many other unionized workplaces, labor and management today are exploring numerous partnerships and innovative methods of collectively bargaining along with problem solving arrangements.

Q Won't a union stifle individual achievement with things like raises and promotions determined solely by seniority?

A Salaries and promotions are bona fide subjects for collective bargaining. Without a union, management makes these decisions unilaterally, usually without any worker input. Through collective bargaining, management and union must agree on the mechanisms to be used, and that agreement is included in a legally binding contract. There are no preconditions. Employees, through their elected union representatives, may bargain for any viable system they believe best suits their profession and employment condition. For example, some union contracts provide not only for annual cost of living increase but as well for a pool of dollars for merit increases that work in combination to assure minimum equity while providing for recognition of individual achievement.

Seniority need not be the only criterion for promotion. A formal procedure could be devised which would include ratings by both supervisors and peers, credit for advanced education and training programs, and anything else that is deemed relevant by the professional group. A formal promotion and layoff procedure with rules known by all is preferable to no ground rules at all. But such a system can only be devised and implemented by a union and its members.

Q What guarantees do I have that my union leadership won't commit me to follow rules with which I don't agree?

A Union officers are elected by the grassroots membership of the union. Federal law requires that secret ballot procedures be used, and that elections for local officers be held at least every three years. Indeed, the right of the individual to affect policy in a union is far better protected by law and the constitution, rules and procedures of the union than in any other private organization.

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