Rant About Covid Antivaxxers

[SunDazed]

We have all dealt with chronic care patients who keep coming back to the hospital because they have COPD and refuse to stop smoking, have CHF but can't be bothered to be compliant with their medications, or they are ESRD but they won't change their lifestyle, yet expect to be rescued whenever they eat a bucket of chicken while drinking a case of soda but can't make their dialysis appointment.

A more experienced nurse told me in my first two years of nursing that she thought 20% of the population used 80% of hospital and healthcare resources. I admit my dentist has used every tactic to try to get me to floss daily... what can I say? Some habits are best learned when very young - I just can't get it done. That point being, that even intelligent people (me...LOL) can't always be made to follow a long term treatment plan if the risk of not following it, doesn't feel real. 

Covid antivaxxers... I am sorry to say I am all dystopian fantasy about this. It is all those chronic illness frustrations rolled into risk of death in the fast lane scenario. I am nearly radicalized. I think that anyone who refuses to mask, get vaccinated, wash their hands while propagating myths about fake news should be required to get a special tattoo.  

Then when they show up in the ED with Covid symptoms, and test positive... we ask to see the spot where the tattoo is mandated to be placed. When it proves they are fake news antivaxxers... they are escorted out of the hospital by a team in space suits to "the fairgrounds". The fairgrounds has a fence and armed guards and plenty of organic food, water, shelter, sleeping arrangements.... no phones, no computers, no Fox News, no radio.... make them be inside their own heads. Have them reassure each other it isn't real until those around them die.  If they actually survive and can agree to be vaccinated before being released... then they can be released. 

My county is full of fake news people. We have a vaccination rate of 49% county wide. Covid admissions are up in the region and at our hospital. We don't have that big of a hospital. Having 8-11 Covid cases is a lot for us. 2 of the 12 ICU beds and the nurses caring for them is a lot. 

You don't believe Covid is real? Then we will allow you to continue with your thoughts and beliefs when you contract it, you will battle it alone at "the fairgrounds". Yes visitors are welcome... but if they enter, they cannot leave. 

Seriously... we need the right to refuse to serve those who threaten our lives and families. They expect to be saved? Darwinian ideas full scale. We are only interfering with it when we try to save these idiots.

I said it was a rant... whew... 

[HarleyvQuinn, MSN, RN, NP]

On 7/31/2021 at 10:21 PM, nursej22 said:

Welcome, new poster/member!

All 3 COVID vaccines in use in our country have been authorized, I.e. approved, for emergency use. You know, an emergency like a global pandemic. 

The government is not forcing anything into your body. Mandates are not the same as force. Employers may set conditions of employment, including vaccination. 

Do you have any more hackneyed anti-vaccine messages you would like to share? 

 My personal favorite is when people keep jumping up and down and pointing to the fact that you can get breakthrough infections as if this was, somehow, not expected. As if every vaccination ever developed in history has a perfect 100% efficacy track record and the goal has never been to reduce not just the risk of catching, but particularly the severity of the illness for those who do become ill. Which, I might add, the vaccines appear to be doing fine with even with each new variant they have come against thus far. All this without herd immunity thus far. The actual science on display has been fascinating. 

 On a public health level, I am of course concerned about vaccine hesitancy and the danger that low vaccine levels in the public can pose those with impaired immune systems or otherwise unable to vaccinate. On a more personal and very jaded level, though? Let them choose not to vaccinate. The population really does need to downsize desperately. At this point, I'm considering it the same as AMA and other detrimental lifestyle choices. Healthcare positions have always required certain vaccines for employment. The military has always required above and beyond that list. If that's a deal-breaker, well, there are other jobs out there. 

[guest1163268]

2 hours ago, HarleyvQuinn said:

 My personal favorite is when people keep jumping up and down and pointing to the fact that you can get breakthrough infections as if this was, somehow, not expected. As if every vaccination ever developed in history has a perfect 100% efficacy track record and the goal has never been to reduce not just the risk of catching, but particularly the severity of the illness for those who do become ill. Which, I might add, the vaccines appear to be doing fine with even with each new variant they have come against thus far. All this without herd immunity thus far. The actual science on display has been fascinating. 

 On a public health level, I am of course concerned about vaccine hesitancy and the danger that low vaccine levels in the public can pose those with impaired immune systems or otherwise unable to vaccinate. On a more personal and very jaded level, though? Let them choose not to vaccinate. The population really does need to downsize desperately. At this point, I'm considering it the same as AMA and other detrimental lifestyle choices. Healthcare positions have always required certain vaccines for employment. The military has always required above and beyond that list. If that's a deal-breaker, well, there are other jobs out there. 

It's their perspectives that bother me and coupled with the hostility arising from ostracizing, how many others will they now influence? With their qualifications behind their names in today's world of facebook, their reach can be long! 

[JKL33]

6 hours ago, HarleyvQuinn said:

As if every vaccination ever developed in history has a perfect 100% efficacy track record and the goal has never been to reduce not just the risk of catching, but particularly the severity of the illness for those who do become ill.

This is definitely a point of ignorance and misunderstanding and has been an aspect of vaccine education that we haven't been clear about...for any of the conditions we are vaccinating against. Healthcare providers do use the terminology that xyz vaccine is to "prevent [name of illness]."  Those of us who are vaccinating or educating or just casually sharing vaccine-related info can use verbiage that is appropriate for the situation while still taking care to make sure that it is accurate.

[Subee2, BSN, MSN, CRNA]

Make vaccination mandatory for entrance to hospital.  You can be cared for by your family in the Covid tent. Maybe nurses who refuse vaccination could work there postponing their eventual firings.  My dream.

[Juanito, BSN, MSN]

9 minutes ago, Undercat said:

Make vaccination mandatory for entrance to hospital.  You can be cared for by your family in the Covid tent. Maybe nurses who refuse vaccination could work there postponing their eventual firings.  My dream.

I suggested something similar.  The unvaccinated should have their own hospital with unvaccinated providers who were fired from other places.  Put them together and let them take care of each other.   I know it sounds harsh, but that’s their choice. —-dreams. It’ll never happen of course, but one can dream. 

[DaveICURN]

     It's hard. It's hard to care for the patients who die. It's hard to learn their names, their families names, their dogs names and watch their lungs fill with the slow march of covid. That creeping feeling that has been described o me time and time again as "Can't catch my breath". We would prone, and that would offer some relief... for a time. Then it was inevitable, they would need The Tube. 

      At first (2020) we did not think much of it. A few days/week on the vent, extubate then they would be fine. Death after Death after Death. Fly the patient to a higher level of care? Only if they were under the age of 40, and in perfect health other than covid. And then? Barotrauma. Chest tubes for collapsed lungs in flight. We had more deaths in the the fall and Winter 2020 than my previous 6 years of ICU combined. New hire? Well here's your vent, and your post mortem care for checkoff tonight. Awful. 

  And then, a glow on the horizon. Vaccines. They had been developed in record time, in various formats, and were going to be on shelves by Spring 2021. But then, as all things do, it became political. Everyone claimed credit, and everyone pointed blame. Everyone wanting to test alternative treatments is now "Alt right conspiracy theorists" and every vaccine supporter is a "Liberal Sheep". 

   So what do we do as people? We networked and boosted the signal. We struck out against those we disagreed with on a moral level, and went for the throat. We call for tattoos and camps for the unvaccinated! And believe ourselves justified due to our moral superiority. "But it's just how I feel". Yes, yes it is. And if enough people feel the same what do we do? We network and boost the signal.

   "But the vaccine is not yet approved by the FDA! We don't know that long term side effects! They're putting microchips into my body!" "I don't need a vaccine, I'm young and healthy and MY KIDS will not take one."

  Yeah, it's not fully approved. And you're right, we don't know the long term side effects. You may be healthy enough to overcome the worst of the viral illness. And you are the ultimate decider of what goes into your and your children's body.

  All these ideas and choices are yours and yours alone to make. You may decide what to do, what to say, and what to decide for your self. This is the benefit of living in the best nation on God's green Earth. We have freedoms unbound and protected. But that does come at a price. The price of pride and vanity. Of unbridled ignorance and brilliance. Of extremes to both ends of all spectrums. And we cater to it all. We cherish it all, relish it, swim in the vastness of it all and thrive. 

  Hate not your "antivax" brother or sister. But be understanding of their concern. Sit and talk with them. Attack not their character, but reason with their logic. If education is not something to be attained, then talk of better things and wish them well. They have made a choice. 

 

You have the freedom to be disappointed in Their choice. 

 

Thank You.

[DaveICURN]

Cleanup

[toomuchbaloney]

I'm going to be disappointed everytime a self proclaimed health professional feels a need to share their flawed reasons for not vaccinating.  I'm also going to tell them they are wrong, even if that hurts their feelings.  

[Juanito, BSN, MSN]

On 8/6/2021 at 2:12 PM, DaveICURN said:

Hate not your "antivax" brother or sister. But be understanding of their concern. Sit and talk with them. Attack not their character, but reason with their logic. If education is not something to be attained, then talk of better things and wish them well. They have made a choice. 

You have the freedom to be disappointed in Their choice. 

Thank You.

You sound like a wonderful kind soul.  I don't hate anyone for not being vaccinated.  I am ANGRY with them for putting us all at risk. I do understand that they have concerns, but many of them cannot be reasoned with.  They do not listen to facts.  Logic is a conspiracy. I do wish them well, but I’m not sure they have the same in mind for me.  I feel like they don't care if my daughter, who is too young to be vaccinated, dies.  They don’t care about others.  

It is their choice. I can respect that, but there needs to be consequences for that choice.  Insurance should be more expensive or family members should have to care for them.  Go to a hospital for the unvaccinated.  It is OK for them to make the choice for them and their families to suffer.  Why do they get to make it for mine?

I really do understand your position.  I just vehemently disagree with their choice and the consequences of said choice for the rest of us. 

[toomuchbaloney]

I agree that "hate" is not the correct term for the emotional response that many of us are experiencing.  

[Subee2, BSN, MSN, CRNA]

1 hour ago, DaveICURN said:

     It's hard. It's hard to care for the patients who die. It's hard to learn their names, their families names, their dogs names and watch their lungs fill with the slow march of covid. That creeping feeling that has been described o me time and time again as "Can't catch my breath". We would prone, and that would offer some relief... for a time. Then it was inevitable, they would need The Tube. 

      At first (2020) we did not think much of it. A few days/week on the vent, extubate then they would be fine. Death after Death after Death. Fly the patient to a higher level of care? Only if they were under the age of 40, and in perfect health other than covid. And then? Barotrauma. Chest tubes for collapsed lungs in flight. We had more deaths in the the fall and Winter 2020 than my previous 6 years of ICU combined. New hire? Well here's your vent, and your post mortem care for checkoff tonight. Awful. 

  And then, a glow on the horizon. Vaccines. They had been developed in record time, in various formats, and were going to be on shelves by Spring 2021. But then, as all things do, it became political. Everyone claimed credit, and everyone pointed blame. Everyone wanting to test alternative treatments is now "Alt right conspiracy theorists" and every vaccine supporter is a "Liberal Sheep". 

   So what do we do as people? We networked and boosted the signal. We struck out against those we disagreed with on a moral level, and went for the throat. We call for tattoos and camps for the unvaccinated! And believe ourselves justified due to our moral superiority. "But it's just how I feel". Yes, yes it is. And if enough people feel the same what do we do? We network and boost the signal.

   "But the vaccine is not yet approved by the FDA! We don't know that long term side effects! They're putting microchips into my body!" "I don't need a vaccine, I'm young and healthy and MY KIDS will not take one."

  Yeah, it's not fully approved. And you're right, we don't know the long term side effects. You may be healthy enough to overcome the worst of the viral illness. And you are the ultimate decider of what goes into your and your children's body.

  All these ideas and choices are yours and yours alone to make. You may decide what to do, what to say, and what to decide for your self. This is the benefit of living in the best nation on God's green Earth. We have freedoms unbound and protected. But that does come at a price. The price of pride and vanity. Of unbridled ignorance and brilliance. Of extremes to both ends of all spectrums. And we cater to it all. We cherish it all, relish it, swim in the vastness of it all and thrive. 

  Hate not your "antivax" brother or sister. But be understanding of their concern. Sit and talk with them. Attack not their character, but reason with their logic. If education is not something to be attained, then talk of better things and wish them well. They have made a choice. 

 

You have the freedom to be disappointed in Their choice. 

 

Thank You.

We do not have the freedom to kill others.  People who deliberately spread HIV are in prison...where they belong.  They need their own walled state where they only have to live with each other.  Let them have "total freedom."  It would be Lord of the Flies within 2 days.   

[chare]

1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

I agree that "hate" is not the correct term for the emotional response that many of us are experiencing.  

What, in your opinion, is the correct term?