DaveICURN

I don't know about "Thinking Conservatives", but I consider myself as right of center. I voted for Ben Carson in the Primary, but ultimately voted trump for his foreign trade policy and strong domestic values. Biden's current policies that are an overreach of power, relating to vax mandates concerns me. I feel the same way I did during the Bush era 9/11 bill to "protect" that ultimately stole away peoples rights to privacy.

Our hospital went for the mandate, and will be separating employee as of 10/15. We have 1 who is applying for a medical exemption. She has had reactions to other routine vaccines and does not receive any annual renewals. I am glad that we have a very accepting air of personal autonomy on our unit. We have always strived for communication and comradery above any tribal politics. We don't care, vaxxed or no, just be as safe as you can and make the best choice for you.

Forgive my need for clarification. What, in your estimation, is the point of democracy as implied by my reply?

Yes, you do. You stand so high above everyone else that all you can do is gaze at everyone else and their inequity. If you are without flaw, then you have nothing to learn. You speed toward your own evolutionary end. So if I understand you, the GOP is an outmoded group whose own self interests are dooming it to failure? They proport lies to strengthen their own support? You have clearly outlined the stop point for the GOP. Then I feel inclined to wonder. What is the stopping point when the Democratic party has gone too far?

But I worry that your throwing away the baby, bathwater, and tub all in one go. Does the current republican establishment have flaws? Of course, no individual of group is perfect. This is why I am trying to hone in on specific grievances to try and establish a point of reference for a conversation. Also I would like to know your take on those citation. I would hate to try and distill your opinion from your references.

So that I understand, Is this related to the voter fraud allegations?

Though the article does list some historical people and their writings, it merely paints their ideals as the foundation of todays conservatives. I don't believe that we should be coining William F. Buckley as the "Patron Saint". I think this does a disservice to the more nuanced augments in the attempt to have a incorrect supposition. Also I'm not entirely sure that a right leaning website would give credence to VOX media. But I could be wrong. And I would ask you to elaborate on this point; "...modern republican party is now actively acting against American democracy"

I believe that we need to dispense with the Us vs Them approach. "Libtards are overthrowing our personal freedoms!" "Trumpers are destroying democracy!" All the inane name calling the removes the speaker from an obvious truth. That the person you call out as your rival is your own inadequacy inverted. We all could do to be more kind towards the plight of others, and we all could be more stern with those who abuse that kindness. We all need a part of the other side to function as a society. But the longer we denigrate and push people to the fringes of their ideology, then we will forever fight for the middle. Let us then discuss the arguments of the GOP and find that common ground.

But the official governmental agencies who approved the vaccine give a warning about the unknown long term side effects. Forgive me for being blunt, but I am not the one ignoring the science. I am trying to reconcile the paradoxical doublespeak of trying to inform my patients and loved ones, while at the same time maintain the integrity of my education.

So, if I understand your position, you educate that the real risk of COVID infection (death or long haul) is worse than the unknown risk of long term side effects? Not trying to misrepresent your point. Just to clarify. So how can we give such a sure claim that the acute is worse than the chronic side effects?

So, If I may, How do you address the concern on the lack of known long term side effects? I feel like I have no good answer for my family/patients because of this official position. I will pose the same question I did to Smiling. How do you address the concern on the lack of known long term side effects?

Once again it is important to advocate for self determination based on official warning and precautions. From the FDA website on COVID-19 vaccine "Available data from short-term follow-up suggest that most individuals have had resolution of (Short term) symptoms. However, some individuals required intensive care support. Information is not yet available about potential long-term health outcomes. The Comirnaty Prescribing Information includes a warning about these risks." https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-first-covid-19-vaccine We need to give a little more grace to those who have reservations. Because we simply do not know at this time. But to dismiss those who want to wait as kooks and "Antivax" is atrocious. We stand no higher than them because we are vaccinated. We have simply, by our own choice, chosen to be vaccinated. We are not better than anyone else. We have no moral high ground. Let's come back down and try to discuss this as professionals.

Well I did not assert the argument, but I am trying to play the devils advocate so I will assist to a degree, "As of April 20, the CDC has indeed reported a total of 7,157 cases of COVID-19 among fully vaccinated people and 88 deaths." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/30/fact-check-misleading-claim-deaths-fully-vaccinated-people/4856504001/ CDC-https://www.CDC.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html Being a provider does not mean that they are immune from having opinions or being "stupid". Yes these are opinions, but I bet the majority have all worked with a provider who we wonder how they are still practicing. All research is done and submitted prior to being peer reviewed. Just because something is not Peer-Reviewed does not mean it is worthless.

With respect, I believe Vegan has completed some of the scientific method. Question Research Hypothesis Testing Analyze Communicate While some methods are not possible on a personal scale, it marks the right boxes. All research should be scrutinized and questioned. Nothing is clear cut and perfect.

Eh, this article has a starting argument that I'm not sure tracks; "What is a right? A right is a justified claim on others. For example, if I have a right to freedom, then I have a justified claim to be left alone by others. Turned around, I can say that others have a duty or responsibility to leave me alone. If I have a right to an education, then I have a justified claim to be provided with an education by society." Seeing as they chose to redefine "Right" from a philosophical standpoint is interesting. I remember a bit of Kant, but I need a refresher myself before I can fully remember his ideals. Our hospital has taken the stance that the vaccine is not mandatory at this time for those who are already working. Though all new hires, transfers, or those who wish to be promoted must be vaccinated. Those who choose not to be vaccinated must wear their mask at all times, as we all do, and complete 1 random test a week. I took the vaccine to be considered for advancement in my hospital. Otherwise I would not have, yet. I had covid in 2020 and was feverish and sweating for a week. Received the J&J in 2021 and was equally sick for 2 days. I have no antibodies, and no test can confirm immunity status at this time. I fully support my fellow ICU nurses who want to wait on receiving the vaccine. Both my 28y/o peer and my 61 y/o peer, have their reasons and are by no means ignorant on the outcomes of people with covid. But they have made a choice and I respect that choice. It hurts that they could contract this and, in the case of my elder peer, die. But they are aware of the risks. They are adults. So I will love them now and hopefully never mourn their passing.