"Women Are Catty"

Published

  1. Women are Catty

    • 82
      That's a fact! Everyone knows that!
    • 217
      Some women can be catty some of the time, but let's not condemn the whole gender!
    • 22
      That's an unfair/untrue/unfortunate generalization!
    • 6
      That's just plain wrong!

327 members have participated

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.

another thread claims it's a fact: women are catty. unfair/untrue/unfortunate generalization? or is the poster correct -- women are catty?

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Specializes in LTC & Correctional Nursing.

i believe that some women can be....but i don't think by any means that it is the norm....jmo. i really try not to be, in life i have been on the receiving end of cattiness many times and i never wanted to make someone feel the way it made me feel. but i am sure that there have been many times that i have been. i just make an effort not to be. sorry...rambling...:D

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more often than not, i would say yes.

i think a lot of it is r/t our cultural conditioning, where girls weren't raised to be straightshooters, assertive.

and so, as adults, this results in a lot of passive-aggressive behaviors, including cattiness.

but that's just my opinion.

as a teen, i hung out w/mostly boys because i didn't care for the dynamics of my female peers.

i just don't have the time or tolerance for b.s.

and sadly, there seems to be too much of it from the female species.

leslie:twocents:

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Specializes in Medical Surgical.

I just finished watching the last "Survivor" show (I had it taped). The winner was very catty, manipulative, a shameful flirt, and the ringleader of schemes that blind-sided the stronger competitors. Of the jury, the three men were outraged and gave their vote to another woman they perceived as nicer and more honest. The five women on the jury unanimously gave the vixen their votes, and thus allowed her to win. I could only conclude that the females "got" her strategies and approved of them.

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Specializes in EC, IMU, LTAC.

This essay says it better than I ever could. It addresses the problem and the social conditioning behind it. She is right on the money that it is a learned behavior that can be unlearned or not taught at all.

Edit: This website is not letting me put the link through because there is a bad word in the web address. I'm going to copy and paste, which is all right according to the website as long as due credit is given. I tried to cover the cuss words. If I missed one, please forgive me.

"You Don't Have To LIKE Everyone You Work With"

June 4, 2006

I love the TV Series "House" because it's so damned irreverent and for all his seeming lack of compassion, his character has these incredibly accurate analytical insights into the crazy labyrinth of human behavior. He often pegs people's motivations more easily than what is causing their illness. As with all episodes in this series, there is the primary story of a difficult diagnostic case, and then there is a side story regarding some relationship or activity between the primary characters.

In the episode, "Sleeping Dogs lie", two of his diagnosticians, Eric Forman and Allison Cameron wrote papers to be submitted to an established medical journal. As it turns out, they had both written about the same case, and Foreman ended up getting his paper published before Cameron had hers approved by House. Cameron is incensed. She feels cheated and is convinced that Foreman behaved unfairly and unethically by "scooping" her, when he knew she was writing up that case.

She is so upset throughout the whole episode, that she lets it affect her work.

When Cameron whines to the Dean of Medicine, Lisa Cuddy about what Foreman did, expecting sympathy, no doubt because Lisa is another woman, the Dean shrugs it off. "Yeah. So?" In classic Heartless B**ch form, she basically tells Cameron to get over it, write ANOTHER paper, a better one, and one day when she is the head of a diagnostic unit like that she can have the satisfaction of reviewing Foreman's application for a position in the unit and deciding whether or not to hire him...

In the end, when Cameron decides to "get over it", she thinks the route is to make amends and suggests that Foreman make an apology because, in her mind, that's what friends do. He brings her up by the short-and-curlies and lets her know in no uncertain terms that they are COLLEAGUES and not friends, and that he doesn't owe her an apology. He didn't set out to harm her in any way - he simply acted in his own self-interest, and not hers, and doesn't believe he has anything to apologize for.

Cameron is stunned.

Why am I highlighting this? Because it is, sadly, a CLASSIC demonstration of feminine socialized behavior. Too many women handicap themselves in the workplace because they operate from a position where they EXPECT life to be FAIR; they expect others to put aside their own self-interests, and even worse, they think that they have to be FRIENDS with everyone they work with.

Unfortunately, I've seen this kind of thing happen too many times in the workplace. It reminded me of the situation where I was put in charge of managing a department that had several young women who were relatively inexperienced for the positions they were in; and they had unrealistic expectations about how they were to be treated. They expected that everyone had to like them, and worse, that THEY had to like everyone they worked with, and that they should automatically be respected by virtue of their positions, rather than their actual contributions and abilities. (In high tech, as with many industries, you really have to "earn your stripes" to be respected.)

As PEOPLE, I didn't have any problem with these women - they were all likeable enough. But I found it incredibly frustrating as a manager to deal with any employee or coworker who has an expectation that they a) have to LIKE everyone they work with, b) have to be LIKED by everyone they work with, and c) are entitled to respect, regardless of what they say or do, instead of having to earn it. I also had a big problem with the fact that when they had difficulties getting along with another coworker, they came whining to me. What they should have been doing was taking that coworker aside and asserting themselves by calmly explaining what the issue was, and what they expected or wanted to see to rectify it. Instead, when I wouldn't give them the "emotional support" they wanted or offer to go talk to the person that was upsetting them, they would then go whining to the HR manager (who was just as annoyed with this behavior). When neither of us would support the whinging, they would complain to others. Instead of garnering the respect they deserved, it made matters worse - the people they had to work with respected them even less.

We have a culture that socializes women to seek validation through the approval of others. For women that have fully absorbed this malarkey, it means that if someone doesn't LIKE them or doesn't want to be their friend, they find it too difficult to work with that person. It interferes with their professionalism and all too often, with their ability to do their jobs. I've seen it with men too, but not to anywhere near the degree I have seen it with women, and my readership has sent me several stories of situations that unfortunately mirror my experiences.

What makes it worse is when women who have these expectations then resort to manipulation, back-biting and sabotage when they decide they don't "like" another co-worker for whatever reason. All of the above are unacceptable behaviors, NOT because you should be wrapping your female co-workers in the group-hug of "sisterhood" but because they are UNPROFESSIONAL and UNETHICAL.

The other thing that can happen in an office with a number of women is the "pecking order" syndrome, where an alpha female is seen in some way as the "group" leader. Any women who challenge the established order, or refuse to play along with the subtle (or not so subtle) dominance of the group leader are ostracized - i.e. not invited to lunches, parties, etc. Any woman who is a true Heartless B**ch and works in an environment with a number of other women such as an office, retail store, or restaurant will probably experience this at least once in her life. I just have this word of advice: DON'T let it interfere with you getting your job done, or enjoying your work - after all, that is what you are there for - WORK. People like that AREN'T the kind of people you want to have as friends anyway. Find other ways to network socially. Don't engage in revenge. The only kind of "revenge" that is acceptable is the "living well" kind - What riles these pecking-order types the most is when you blissfully ignore them and their tactics. If you have to work directly with them, you may have to Cover Your Ass to ensure that they are not undermining or sabotaging your work. Depending on the level of attempted sabotage, you may have to work to have yourself moved to another department, or (if you have sufficient documentation) to have the person in question removed from her position. If there really are no other options, and the person is interfering with your ability to do your work, then GET ANOTHER JOB.

I want to make this perfectly clear: Both the "everyone must like me and I must like everyone", and the "pecking order" behaviors are NOT an innate aspect of gender. This is a LEARNED behavior. And it can be UNLEARNED. Better yet, we can just NOT TEACH IT to our daughters (or sons). We can help our daughters to feel strong enough and confident enough to not capitulate to this asinine socialization when it starts in grade or high school.

When you spend more time at work worrying about WHY someone doesn't like you or spend your time trying to get people to LIKE you, instead of focusing on your JOB, you short-change yourself and your career.

I'm not talking about being deliberately abusive or inconsiderate - I'm talking about focusing on doing your job - and doing it well, instead of trying to be buddies with everyone you work with. There is a difference between having understanding and compassion and being a needy, demanding dishrag. It's an old adage, and you need to embrace it - You won't be able to please everyone all that time, and you shouldn't even try. It's not easy - when a woman doesn't focus her energies on "pleasing others", you may be labeled a "Hard-A**ed B**ch", but who cares? That kind of comment generally comes from weak or lazy people who are mad that you won't capitulate to their demands (or whining), or let them get away sub-par performance. And wouldn't you rather be a seen as a B**ch, but respected, than as, "Sweet, but not terribly talented"? (In preparation for meeting a new manager, I was warned that "With Jane you'll always know where you stand. Or sit. Or lie bleeding on the floor." I loved that description. She was great. No ********, no games. Some feared her, but everyone respected her.)

This people-pleasing socialization is a major impediment to women succeeding in a male-dominated environment. Too many women go running to their managers (or worse, engage in backbiting and undermining techniques) when they have a problem with a colleague, rather than confronting the colleague one-on-one and dealing with the problem. The 6 major ways that I see people sabotaging themselves in the workplace are:

  • Expecting you have to be friends with, and be liked by everyone you work with.
  • Expecting the world (and your office) to be FAIR, and incensed to the point of dysfunction when it isn't instead of working on ways to change things, or work around them.
  • Expecting your manager or someone else to "nurture" your career, such as handing you training opportunities, instead of taking charge of your own life and asking for them.
  • Waiting for others to magically recognize your genius and abilities instead of tooting your own horn and letting others know when you have done a good job (this leaves the door open for others to take credit for the work you have done).
  • Obsessing about things that can't be changed (the deed is done), instead of moving on and up and over
  • Refusing to stand up for yourself and address conflicts head-on
  • Using sexual manipulation in the workplace - sadly, it may work on some people but NOBODY will respect you for it, and it may also backfire.
  • Whining and whinging to managers about problems instead of coming to them with both the problem AND how you are going to solve it.

I've been successful in my career because I've made sure that the right people, KNOW when I've delivered something great (and when my staff or team has delivered!), and because I do my level best to resolve conflicts with people one-on-one.

In EVERY instance where I have had a problem with a colleague (and in some cases managers), I confronted those problems directly with the person in question. I did NOT go running to my manager or some big brother/sister HR. I absolutely loathe these anonymous "3rd-Party Harassment" policies because they treat women as helpless creatures that can't face a problem situation on their own, and create a victim mentality in the workplace. The only time you should go to HR is if you have tried to address an issue of real harassment, and the person refuses to stop the behavior. In one instance where I had a manager I felt I could no longer work for, but I still wanted to work for the company, I documented the issues (though they were already well known), and went to the VP. I orchestrated a schism in our group, resulting in me reporting directly to the VP for a while until a new manager for the 2nd group was hired.

In every single instance where I've had a problem with a coworker, I was able to resolve it satisfactorily on my own and continue productive work with the individual in question -even after the incident very early in my career where I lost my cool and told a co-worker to "f*** right off!"). It's a matter of taking control of your own situation, and not making OTHERS responsible for your feelings and your problems. Even if you can't resolve a conflict, you can still put your feelings aside and act like a professional.

There was one situation I recall where a colleague and I were disagreeing about an architectural approach when talking to a manager. The discussion escalated to an argument, and we both began to raise our voices. The manager just sat there, watching the exchange with what looked like bemused fascination, and didn't say a word. I realized it was degrading rapidly, and going nowhere. I finally turned to my colleague and stated, "Look. This isn't going anywhere. We are going to take a 15 minute coffee break to cool down. Then we are going to go into that meeting room over there, and resolve this issue, and when we have come to an agreement we will present our findings to Dave (our manager)." I didn't pose it as a question - I made it clear that we WERE going to resolve the conflict, but that we needed a cooling off period first. My colleague was NOT happy, but he agreed, sputtering, "FINE!" and he harrumphed out of the office. As we both left, our manager chucked and said in a sing-song voice, "Make sure you wipe the blood off the walls when you are done!" (I loved that manager!)

After our cool-down period, we had an in-depth architectural discussion and came to an agreement we both could live with. Problem solved. And no blood was spilled. At that point, I wasn't worried about whether or not he liked me. I was concerned with solving the problem at hand, and that involved working on the issues. It meant we both had to get to a space where we could think rationally and calmly, and sometimes that means walking away from something for a while. What was important is that I made a scheduled time when we would deal with the issue again, rather than letting it dangle.

Sometimes, in my role as manager, I've had to make hard decisions - things like letting people go because they couldn't perform or deliver what the company needed, or because the company was restructuring. These are never easy, but if you are a manager, and you spend too much time making sure everyone likes you, then you undermine people's confidence in your ability make unbiased decisions, and you will have a hard time doing the difficult tasks that may come your way.

We all make friends at work - I'm not saying you shouldn't - god knows, some of my best friends are people I have worked with. But don't let your expectations for friendship or even people liking you get in the way of you doing your job and acting in a professional manner. If the problems are work are severe and there is no way to rectify them, then make a career change or move to another company. It IS possible. Life is too short to be miserable for 40+ hours a week. The key here is to make sure *you* are in charge of your career.

Picking your battles at work - working the system and figuring out how to do it in a way that doesn't compromise your ethics, or your integrity - is critical to both enjoying your work, and succeeding in your career. Suck it up and accept that your job and LIFE aren't always "fair", that you don't have to like your coworkers to get the job done, and that nobody is going to look out for your career but YOU. That means doing your job well, taking charge of your own training, and making sure your accomplishments are known to the right people. If you use sex and sexual manipulation to get ahead (literally and figuratively), you are trading on your body at the price of your integrity. I'd call it prostitution, but that would do a disservice to prostitutes - at least they are HONEST about what they are selling. Undermining and backbiting other women or men because you don't like them is selling yourself short - it's not being responsible for YOURSELF. And finally, if the only way you can get ahead is through backstabbing and deceit, then you are NOT a Heartless B**ch, in fact, you aren't even a B**ch - you're just an a**hole.

heartlessly,

-Natalie

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Specializes in EC, IMU, LTAC.

I'll say this as well: I'm not saying that men are better workers, but I think that they are more conditioned to a workplace with objectives and are more likely to set aside personal stuff for work. I know plenty of good female workers who can make a priority and separate it from personal life (ie not get miffy when the manager who just happens to be your friend doesn't give you special privileges), but I've seen too many who treat the workplace like high school.

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Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.

interesting essay, peachpie.

i may be naive, but i just cannot see applying some label to an entire gender. and i guess i just haven't run into enough catty women to think they're anything but a small minority.

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Not really wild about the choices listed for the poll, but yes, women are catty. Not all of them all the time, but provided the proper environment (say, a nurse's station or locker room?) the claws and teeth are bound to come out.

I have worked with many women and many men. Men definitely DO DO DO gossip, but I haven't found the kind of dagger-thrusting that occurs with women. Men's gossiping (in my experience) has mostly been about jealousy that they acknowledge--they admit they want whatever that guy's got. Women, however, seem hell-bent on destroying the object of their jealousy. Get enough rumors started to get her gone, or career damaged, and you've got a happy little clique.

Minority? I don't believe so. I have worked in many domains, in many fields, and it's pretty much the same. The way to succeed is by degrading someone else, not by elevating oneself.

Damning of the entire gender? Maybe, but if the shoe fits....

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Women tend to reveal more details of their personal lives to each other than men do.

That gives women plenty of ammunition to be catty with.

Women may complain about being gossiped about when they gave all the information to the wrong people.

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Specializes in Nephrology, Cardiology, ER, ICU.

Hmmm....generalizations are just that, general! Don't feel ALL women are catty by any means.

Have a nice day...meow!

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Are women usually more catty then men? Absolutely. A man will tell another man to his face when he is offended or whatnot. The situation will typically be nipped in the bud rather quickly. A woman will stew for a while and then corral her friends to get on her side of the argument -- then it's all out warfare! I've seen it happen many times. Women are way more passive agressive -- when they're hurt and angry, hell really does hath no fury.

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Specializes in Staff nurse.

If you mean by being catty:

Protective as a mother cat of her kittens;

Strong to weather life's mishaps;

Able to teach her kits how to survive in the world;

Teaching to be clean;

Able to climb to new heights;

Teaching how to fix your own meal, share it, and clean up afterwards;

Teach the equivalent of putting the seat down;

Teach how to share, that there's usually always room for one more in the heap;

That every day needs some down time for a stretch and a purr session;

Play time is valuable;

Gardening is a great stress-reducer;

Respect for your elders;

Then being catty isn't so bad, eh?

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