Pt's FB pictures of me

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I am a nursing student, and my dad is an ON/GYN. I recently helped him deliver a baby, and his pt took pictures of us and posted them on Facebook. I would like to have these pictures, as I hope to become a CNM, and would love to have a picture of my dad and me at my first delivery. (There are pics of us with and without the baby.)

Is it a HIPAA violation if I click on the "..." and save these pictures to my phone since she made them public on Facebook (we are not FB friends. I searched for her.) I really want these pictures, but want to have them legitimately. Thanks!

HIPAA violations are violations of PHI disclosure and access. The OP did not disclose anything, nor did she access PHI.

I'll concede that it might be a gray area, but you need to explain to me how, for example, googling a socially-prominent patient that has a Wikipedia page is a HIPAA violation? That's no different than searching FB when there are privacy settings to make one unsearchable, but they have not been used by the person you are searching for.

I beg to differ. A person's name is PHI. That one would have no way of knowing if they were not in the facility. And if we look up socially prominent PATIENTS in a search engine we get fired. Period.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
It may seem rhetorical, but I really am curious if we see that as being different or the same thing.
I'm being a smart aleck with my off color (at times) sense of humor......and I am not serious....but the first thing that popped into my mind was....Do you cut them out for your scrap book? ;)
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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
You're right. I'm letting myself get very defensive. It's hard not to be defensive when I've been accused of everything from stalking to being the subject of nepotism to doing more than just observing a delivery to having my picture taken with a school name tag on (??), all when seeking what I was hoping to be a simple answer (HIPAA violation vs not a HIPAA violation) to an honest question.

And you're right that I probably need to check out from this discussion for the night (if not permanently).

Many of us here have been nurses for many, many, years. We only want to help you.
Wow. This may only be a discussion between professionals, but it may be a bit too dramatic for me. It's not good for my psyche
Seriously? We are only sharing YEARS of experience to try to help you not get yourself into a situation that you can't handle and will regret later. You now see what a controversy this can cause...is it really worth going through this with your school or the facility because you are excited about your clinical experience and want to have a keepsake? It's an argument you just might lose. I would be remiss if I didn't try to get you see another point of view to watch you walk into the fire and possibly have yourself removed from your schools program putting a HUGE wrench in your plans.
It was honestly an innocent motive.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Innocent motives and claiming you didn't know will not absolve you of wrong doing...ever. For example...In nursing, if you claim you didn't know that a 1000mg of Demerol is wrong and you gave it will not absolve you of the responsibility of over dosing your patient. Not knowing the speed limit will not get you out of a ticket.

In medicine and nursing there are seldom clear right or wrong answers, as you will undoubtedly learn as you go forward. IN fact the NCLEX is an entire test on choosing the MOST RIGHT answer with a lot of grey thrown in for good measure. HIPAA is NOT a clear cut interpretation. Each facility decides their own interpretation and enforces as they deem necessary. You can innocently walk into a quagmire and get sucked tight to the bottom and out of your program. I sincerely believe that you had the best intentions. However that may not make it OK in the long run.

What is your plan IF when your father asks about the picture the patient goes crazy, calls the hospital and demands that something be done. Patients are always right and unpredictable. The friendliest patient will turn on you in a heartbeat. The hospital looking for someone to blame and needs a corrective action to fulfill their obligation. The hospital then reports it to the school. They say something needs to be done or the school can't return for clinical. The school looking out for it's interests and decide that your are culpable....then you get kicked out of school. Is this memoir for your scrapbook really worth the potential risks? Only you can decide.

Your Father will get off scott free with the facility as he brings revenue. Oh....they might tell him it wasn't a good idea and as they go forward xyz will not be allowed but little will affect him over all. You on the other hand are the lowly nurse responsible for everyone's actions and low man on the totem pole will be "the example" of what not to do in the facility and at your school. Your dismissal will be the corrective action. This is the reality. Will it happen? Maybe not. Again is it worth it? Only you can decide.

Jan 25 by rse3 We have no rules about taking pictures (even pictures for social media) or where we can wear our uniforms. I don't really understand the problem with taking pictures of uniforms. However, I wasn't even in my uniform (and no name tag) because I changed into surgical scrubs for a possible emergency c-section per my instructor's orders (I explain because I would hate to get flamed on here for possibly being out of uniform, too.)
I would be STUNNED if your school didn't have a social media policy in this day and age. ALL schools I deal with have one. While it may not be addressed directly it is addressed in the confidentiality agreement you signed with your school and/or the facility. It is certainty addressed by the governing bodies of nursing which apply to you.

Social Media Guidelines - National Council of State Boards of Nursing

  • The use of social media and other electronic communication is expanding exponentially.
  • Individuals use blogs, social networking sites, and video sites to communicate both personally and professionally with others.
  • Social media is an exciting and valuable tool when used wisely. However, it can pose a risk as it offers instantaneous posting opportunities that allow little time for reflective thought.

  • NCSBN has developed guidelines (read this!) for using social media responsibly. Due to the inappropriate use of social media, some nurses have lost their jobs, been disciplined by the board of nursing and have been criminally charged.
  • NCSBN has collaborated with the American Nurses Association (ANA) on the professional use of social media. NCSBN has endorsed ANA's principles of using social media, and ANA has endorsed NCSBNs guidelines.
  • ANA and NCSBN are planning further collaborative efforts to get the word out about using social media appropriately without harming patients.

Here is one schools social media policy...start at page 26

Undergraduate - School of Nursing - Purdue University

Social Media Use in Nursing Education - American Nurses Association

Teaching Privacy

The use of social media in the classroom assists in conveying professional communication standards. Prior to use, students should complete HIPAA education and be required to read the ANA Social Networking Principles Toolkit (ANA, 2011). Students should also be instructed to intentionally consider the following:

  • everything typed may be publicly accessed
  • who is the audience and who can see each posting
  • whether postings will add to or detract from the profession of nursing and their professional reputation
  • the need to establish professional boundaries even between friends and family
  • at all times to keep patient information private including their assigned work unit and minor information (e.g., patient census or their shift)
  • the need to keep privacy settings reviewed and updated

Here is the ANA tip card for reference...http://www.nursingworld.org/FunctionalMenuCategories/AboutANA/Social-Media/Social-Networking-Principles-Toolkit/Tip-Card-for-Nurses-Using-Social-Media.pdf
ANA’s Principles for Social Networking

1.Nurses must not transmit or place online individually identifiable patient information.

2.Nurses must observe ethically prescribed professional patient — nurse boundaries.

3.Nurses should understand that patients, colleagues, institutions, and employers may view postings.

4.Nurses should take advantage of privacy settings and seek to separate personal and

professional information online.

5.Nurses should bring content that could harm a patient’s privacy, rights, or welfare to the

attention of appropriate authorities.

6.Nurses should participate in developing institutional policies governing online conduct.

6 Tips to Avoid Problems

1.Remember that standards of professionalism are the same online as in any other circumstance.

2.Do not share or post information or photos gained through the nurse-patient relationship.

3.Maintain professional boundaries in the use of electronic media. Online contact with

patients blurs this boundary.

4.Do not make disparaging remarks about patients, employers or co-workers, even if

they are not identified.

5.Do not take photos or videos of patients on personal devices, including cell phones.

6.Promptly report a breach of confidentiality or privacy.

Just because someone has a diference of opinion doesn't mean you are being picked on or nurses are eating their young.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted".......Ralph Waldo Emerson
Now I hope you have a clearer understanding what is at stake here and you can make an informed decision from here.

I wish you the best.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
My mom (rest her soul) always told me: if you are about to do something, and for whatever reason, you start wondering if what you are about to do is right or wrong, then you can pretty much be guaranteed that it is wrong. ;) I haven't always followed her advice, but it's always turned out to be correct.....I understand where you're coming from, but I really think some lines have been crossed already, and I'd leave well enough alone. Sometimes memories have to be enough.
I am sorry for your loss....Your Mamma was a smart woman.
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Why do you need photo proof? Do you think someone won't believe you?

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Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.

I would stay so far away from this.

Many schools would have a very serious problem with this.

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, PACU.

We have been told by our legal to tell parents to please not post our names or pictures on social media. If the mom gives you a copy of the picture, or emails it to you, go for it, but don't copy it off her page. And do not repost it on your social media sites.

And check for social media policy and procedures in the hospital manual.

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Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.

It could be interpreted as favoritism or nepotism or currying favor.

Clinical experiences shouldn't be photographic opportunities with your family.

I 100% agree that clinical time is not a photo op. However, favoritism, nepotism, or currying favor? I don't see that. It would be a conflict of interest if the students parent is the clinical instructor; however, beyond that it is a bit of a slippery slope. What if a student's mother is the NM on that unit? The student's brother is a nurse on the unit? The student's grandmother died in the hospital...what if even the student does not realize that she (the student) has a grudge?

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Specializes in critical care.
I 100% agree that clinical time is not a photo op. However favoritism, nepotism, or currying favor? I don't see that. It would be a conflict of interest if the students parent is the clinical instructor; however, beyond that it is a bit of a slippery slope. What if a student's mother is the NM on that unit? The student's brother is a nurse on the unit? The student's grandmother died in the hospital...what if even the student does not realize that she (the student) has a grudge?[/quote']

I think the issue is the *appearance* of gaining favor. There is no way for other students to know if she is or not, and in the sake of fairness, were I the instructor working with her clinical group, I would try to assign her to patients who did not have a family member tending to them. That's not always possible, but if it can be done, it should be. It reduces the animosity the other students might feel toward her if they do perceive that she is getting more access to better clinical experiences than they are. And if preceptor evaluation is part of their grading, it's pretty obvious that there is a huge issue with being graded in part by a family member.

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Specializes in Emergency, Telemetry, Transplant.
What about it is different that makes one okay and one unethical/unprofessional?

I personally think there is a difference between looking over the death notices in the paper for a name I recognize versus actively going to facebook and searching names of former patients. For me it is an active versus passive attempt to gather info.

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Specializes in MDS/ UR.

'It could be interpreted as' is the same as 'giving the appearance' to my thinking on the matter.

Looking or hearing from the outside in, it could be seen as favoritism or nepotism or currying favor.

It could be seen as giving favor to one student's experience because a potentially influential family member is on staff.

It could be seen as it's not just a regular staff member. It's an MD who is part of practice that could influence revenue for a hospital.

It might be said it is okay or how great it is that this is the case publically- but privately may be a whole other thing.

I am not saying this is the case here at all.

Just saying that there is a big potential for discussion of inequity or perception thereof one's student experience to another.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
I personally think there is a difference between looking over the death notices in the paper for a name I recognize versus actively going to facebook and searching names of former patients. For me it is an active versus passive attempt to gather info.

Obituaries are now online, is the difference between right and wrong scrolling through the names vs using the search function?

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