President Biden thread

2 hours ago, Beerman said:

I think you're mischaractorizing what makes up the most of PPP borrowers.  Most are smaller businesses. I don't think most we're planning on not paying them back.  Any particular reason you do?

You can put in zipcodes in the search box and see who had loans foregiven.  It's interesting.

https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/

 

I wasn’t commenting on most PPP recipients; I was commenting on lawmakers who voted on the law and received loan forgiveness for hundreds of thousands of dollars. And now those lawmakers are whining about low income people getting loan forgiveness on $10,000-$20,000. I also heard that many small business owners were unable to get PPP loans, due to the complexity of application and the funds running out. 

7 hours ago, Beerman said:

A interesting perspective from Mike Rowe, on his facebook page:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0VRrrMtgGcD6sHu95HvyQfwKwzkYsza2tDQ3V7ZLZFsgsE7WBu4f9rHi3uTL9An3Yl&id=100044228419568

I don't know who Mike Rowe is and I applaud him for giving handouts, I mean scholarships, to certain people.  It does highlight that even those that forgo college and go after a profession that is in high demand even find that out of reach and need help.  He says they are the real losers in the loan forgiveness situation, highlighting "how fair is it", "us against them" and "what about those that.......".  

I do wish a greater emphasis was place on non-degreed education that we need like plumbers, truck drivers and whatnot.  Again, I'm an advocate for free-post high school education.

But education has it values and the idea that we are rewarding "lesbian dance" is fear mongering.

About "useless degrees like gender studies".

Quote

Our graduates work in a range of occupations, including human services, social work, non-profit organizations, private businesses, advocacy, and the arts. A Gender Studies undergraduate education also provides a solid foundation for pursuing a graduate degree in law, medicine, education, public policy, public health, in addition to any of the social science and humanities majors.

https://gender.ucla.edu/undergraduate/what-can-I-do-with-a-gender-studies-major/

18 hours ago, Tweety said:

I think is where some of the animosity comes from.  You have some kids who were given good advice and guided by their parents and counselors to minimize debt.  

Then you have kids that didn't have this and the knowledge and foresight and took out sizable loans to prestigious expensive schools, and took out the max for living expenses, and didn't work and went on Spring break and were saddled with crippling debt for their adult life.  

Should people with irresponsible borrowing and living habits be rewarded with forgiveness of debt?

When I went to back to get my BSN the school had a policy the loan could only cover the tuition and books period and paid the school directly and I got nothing.  I didn't need it as I was a full time nurse.  When my ex went to get his Masters his lender gave him a huge amount of money that he didn't need, above and beyond his books and tuition and he took the max just because he could.

I think some education such as those in public community colleges, universities and trade schools should be free as an extension of free primary education.  The high cost of education is insane.  

I was able to get my associates degree RN working at Pizza Hut and zero debt in a community college.  Many people of my generation went to school in the 70's and 80's for extremely cheap education and shouldn't criticize those today that are struggling.  

Sorry, I'm all over the fence about this issue.

Animosity is a little strong:)  I feel animus towards a system that even permits students to borrow so much money.  The borrowed money SHOULD go only to the school.  It is the only controllable cost in the equasion.  The  balance should be coming from other sources.  It took me an extra year to complete my BSN because I couldn't go to school full-time.  I already had a steady job to help.  Private banks hand these loans out like candy to people who aren't mature yet and they can make some awful decisions.  I graduated with loans but stuck with the peanut butter until they were paid off - they were a terrible emotional burden to me.  I didn't eat peanut butter for another 25 or so years after that:)  The system is set up to service banks, not students.

7 minutes ago, Beerman said:

Low-income people are benefitting the least from Biden's Student Loan forgiveness.  But, their taxes will still help pay for it.

 

Low income people are benefitting the least from paying Republican congress members $174,000 a year, but their taxes help pay for it. 

3 hours ago, Tweety said:

I don't know who Mike Rowe is and I applaud him for giving handouts, I mean scholarships, to certain people.  It does highlight that even those that forgo college and go after a profession that is in high demand even find that out of reach and need help.  He says they are the real losers in the loan forgiveness situation, highlighting "how fair is it", "us against them" and "what about those that.......".  

I do wish a greater emphasis was place on non-degreed education that we need like plumbers, truck drivers and whatnot.  Again, I'm an advocate for free-post high school education.

But education has it values and the idea that we are rewarding "lesbian dance" is fear mongering.

About "useless degrees like gender studies".

https://gender.ucla.edu/undergraduate/what-can-I-do-with-a-gender-studies-major/

Why don't we just look at the data to see who is paying their loans off and who isn't.  I have no problem directing loans towards people who are going into needed professions or vocations if the data indicates that they are the success stories in paying loans back.  When I listen to college graduates who can't express a coherent paragraph, it makes me think my taxes aren't going to a good use.  We have way too many under performing colleges.

3 hours ago, Beerman said:

Low-income people are benefitting the least from Biden's Student Loan forgiveness.  But, their taxes will still help pay for it.

 Do you have examples from lawmakers whining about low-income people specifically getting loans forgiven?  

No, they are whining about anyone getting it.

I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I'm not sure what your first paragraph is about.

Are you talking about low-income loan forgiveness persons or low income people in general.

Low income. bowers that have the Pell Grant are getting more forgiveness than others.  

It's well known that the huge bulk or recipients make less than $75 but I'm not sure what the breakdown is for people that qualify as tax paying "low income" people.  

Low income students that qualify for much more educational programs, grants and scholarships than middle class persons.  As per a lot of things the burden society is on the middle class.

As far as "their taxes will pay for it", again the lower incomes don't pay much taxes.  The get earned income credit and many pay no taxes.  But if they do pay taxes, yeah our taxes go for a lot of things we personally don't use or qualify for including low income tax payers.  Your point is?

The tax burden is on the middle class and wealthy.

1 hour ago, Beerman said:

I forgot to include this.  I posted it earlier in the thread:

"Between 69 and 73 percent of the debt forgiven accrues to households in the top 60 percent of the income distribution."

 

https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2022/8/23/forgiving-student-loans

 

Makes sense since college graduates make a higher income that high school diploma folks.