Postural Screening And Trans Gender Children

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Mar 20, 2022

On 3/19/2022 at 8:05 AM, NO JOKES OR PUNS ALLOWED said:

You're allowed to have internalized misogyny and think if someone appears female, they should cover their nipples. No one is demanding you educate yourself on trans people or do any degree of navel gazing, but in turn, you shouldn't discriminate and try to dictate gendered behavior for your own comfort. It would be like an ICU nurse saying she doesn't run drips; it's roughly analogous to a school nurse saying because of misgendering children and sex stereotypes, children must dress in a way for the psychological comfort of the nurse, even if it's psychologically harmful to them.

Are you okay with triggering such dysphoria a kid hangs themselves and blames you in the note? Seriously. You're playing with fire and getting bad legal and ethical advice from people who are largely unfamiliar with trans issues. Do no harm.

I think you're assuming a lot of negative things about the OP. The other day a first grader stood up in my office and started to moon me to show me something that hurt. It happened quickly and the office door was open and there was no screen. Do I have an issue with seeing a patient's buttocks? No, of course not. Is it (especially in the school venue) a charged issue, fraught with potential assumptions and are there potential problems? Yes. Due to other (adult) people's issues, not mine...

k1p1ssk, BSN, RN · Mar 21, 2022

I think this is one of those wrought issues where no answer is the right one. In this case, I think I would be putting my license more at risk by not saying anything. Could you imagine if we didn't suggest anything, and a parent thought we forced their child into a naked exam??

Please remember that we HAVE to do this to keep our jobs. We are MANDATED by the state to do these screenings and make these suggestions. As I said before, the GUIDANCE we are given makes these suggestions. We also give families notice that it is an opt-out screening, and that they can let me know they don't want it done in school.

And for the record, while I said it is "assembly-style", the students are NOT screened in front of one another. It is done individually and no one has to change in front of one another.

NutmeggeRN, BSN · Mar 21, 2022

On 3/19/2022 at 8:05 AM, NO JOKES OR PUNS ALLOWED said:

Are you okay with triggering such dysphoria a kid hangs themselves and blames you in the note? Seriously. You're playing with fire and getting bad legal and ethical advice from people who are largely unfamiliar with trans issues. Do no harm.

I think that is why the poster is here, looking for advice. There is a big difference between a thoughtful response and one that denigrates the person "asking for advice" because they are not sure. Kudos to the OP for asking instead of assuming. I have a have learned a lot from these responses.

AnnaliseP · Mar 23, 2022

I don’t think a gender confused teen will be suicidal because they were asked to cover themselves for an exam. And yes, using certain language will be perceived by some as pushing gender issues because that’s exactly what it is. Don’t push an ideology that is harmful to vulnerable young people and is not based in scientific fact on other peoples children. I’m sympathetic with youngsters who have been manipulated by the “trans agenda”, but they can be talked to on an individual basis perhaps before the exam takes place. No one sees any problem with the fact that there are so many kids with these issues suddenly? It has clearly been pushed quite hard in the public schools particularly in the last five years. I know because I’m a mother and have seen this first hand.

NutmeggeRN, BSN · Mar 23, 2022

On 3/23/2022 at 10:22 AM, AnnaliseP said:

No one sees any problem with the fact that there are so many kids with these issues suddenly? It has clearly been pushed quite hard in the public schools particularly in the last five years. I know because I’m a mother and have seen this first hand.

As one who HAS worked in public schools for 28 years, I have seen more kids able to freely express who they are. As society has changed, so (IMHO), should our perceptions of what is right and wrong. I do not see the schools "pushing" anything except trying to accept all kids as who they are. Shouldn't every child be accepted? 60 years ago there was HUGE (and still exists) rejection of POC. It is better, but there is still a long way to go in many areas. Hopefully it won't be the same time frame to increased acceptance of kids who may not meet others people's ideas as "normal".

Emergent, RN · Mar 23, 2022

I'm pretty sure that the issue of gender ambiguity is on the rise because of many of the endocrine disrupting chemicals that we use on our children and on ourselves. They mimic estrogens in the body and are absorbed into the skin.

Jedrnurse, BSN, RN · Mar 23, 2022

2 minutes ago, Emergent said:

I'm pretty sure that the issue of gender ambiguity is on the rise because of many of the endocrine disrupting chemicals that we use on our children and on ourselves. They mimic estrogens in the body and are absorbed into the skin.

Which products tend to be the biggest culprits?

Emergent, RN · Mar 23, 2022

1 minute ago, Jedrnurse said:

Which products tend to be the biggest culprits?

They are actually ubiquitous in many many products. I stopped using most everything. I read up on it, it becomes more pronounced after menopause in women disrupting the estrogen progesterone balance. Progesterone can be supplemented topically which I started doing. You can buy a product that is derived from yams which naturally contains this substance.

Now I just use olive oil on my skin to hold in moisture. I haven't had any female problems in my life though. I've never used makeup and didn't use a lot of products that other women do because I I am more of a Earth Mother type.

Hobe · Mar 23, 2022

Well, talk about eating your own, someone was asking for advice trying to do the right thing respectfully in the new age and gets judged and critized, projecting that the writer had negative ideals, that is not helpful . Highly disappointed in this forum.

We do not have the students take off their shirts, and do the best we can through clothing as there is limited privacy in our offices, it is only a screening, not an exam. The MD should the exam during the physical, if not shame on them. It is fairly easy to spot with a T-shirt on (caught plenty) and we only do those who are not done on their physicals.

Emergent, RN · Mar 23, 2022

Here is a link about these products that didn't exist 100 years ago. Our society been heavily marketed to, and these chemical concoctions have negative effects on the body that are just starting to be discovered.

https://www.endocrineweb.com/lifestyle-diet/hidden-endocrine-disruptors-beauty-products

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Mar 24, 2022

On 3/18/2022 at 10:36 AM, k1p1ssk said:

Here is the language I have settled on for my letter home thus far, but I plan on running it by some friends who are an authority on gender affirming language: " On that day, we ask that all students who identify as female and any others who have concerns for modesty please wear an undergarment that will allow easy visualization of the hips, spine, clavicle, and shoulders/shoulder blades. This can be a bra, sports bra, bathing suit top, or a tight-fitting tank top that may be rolled up to reveal the spine and hips."

Think this verbage is fine but would change "clavicle" to collar bone as more understood term by general public.

Good luck in your massive screenings -- I only had 40 kids at my sons school to help screen.

JenTheSchoolRN, BSN, RN · Mar 29, 2022

On 3/23/2022 at 11:11 AM, Hobe said:

Well, talk about eating your own, someone was asking for advice trying to do the right thing respectfully in the new age and gets judged and critized, projecting that the writer had negative ideals, that is not helpful . Highly disappointed in this forum.

We do not have the students take off their shirts, and do the best we can through clothing as there is limited privacy in our offices, it is only a screening, not an exam. The MD should the exam during the physical, if not shame on them. It is fairly easy to spot with a T-shirt on (caught plenty) and we only do those who are not done on their physicals.

This.

I screen all students in T-shirts. We wear uniforms at my school and I do this screening on a student's gym day during the warmer months when they all wear lightweight T-shirts (usually white). I've also caught plenty this way. It is faster and smoother for the student. (And yes, I agree, it should be part of the MD physical exam but not all my students get a physical yearly like they should.)