None of you will like what I have to say. But let me kick the hard truth to you. Honestly about 50% of people I talk to are in nursing school or are taking pre-reqs for nursing school. This is a major red flag for several reasons. If you have not noticed, nursing wages/benefits have been on the down trend.
Pension?? goodbye.
Crud 401k 403b plans hello. Raise? LOL "sorry hospital is working out financial issues, maybe next year".
Nevermind if you work for a community/SNF agency. Yet insurance companies, medicare derived/gov agencies, and anyone else from the top 1% will continue to blast the RN as "shortage" in order to drive drones of students into nursing schools pulling each others hair out on the way to land a seat. Proof of this is, let's see (ABSN ***** ADN, BSN, diploma, LPN/LVN bridge to RN programs, RN to BSN) Why do these different routes exist? To flood the RN market as fast as possible to drive the wage, need, and profession into the ground.
Let's look at our oh so loyal CNA's. If you can find one that isn't in nursing school to be a nurse, ask them how much they make?
Look at LPN's 20-30 years ago and look at them today??
Surely the ANA and other organizations treated them with respect. The RN is next, so make sure to support your local nursing agency so they can do nothing for you. So they can be paid off by organizations so powerful that no one can say no and "not have the power to stop a bill". So they can continue to cry nursing shortage when this is not true.
RNs today are treated like children and are required to demonstrate fundamental task and other skills in inservices which were designed for nothing else but cut throat. To place blame of UTI's and poor patient satisfaction on the nurse.
If you are an RN today, your only safety net is to become an APRN if you want to live comfortably but in several decades the APRN will be under attack just like the LPN had been an RNs currently are. "OH the aging population is going to need nurses" You really think so?
Nursing homes are shutting down and now elderly people live at home with "24 hour care takers" that get paid **** wages and do things only an RN should be doing. You don't think so? Wake up.
None of this is to say that I hate nursing. I love helping people who are mentally ill, suffering from dementia, sick, or on their death beds. It is when we do great things for them that my love for nursing shines. There aren't other people standing around to reward you for your great deeds.
When the family comes in the next day complaining about everything, they never had a chance to see how well their dying loved one was cared for. Your good deeds will never be rewarded, but in a safe place in your heart.
I am just here to open the eyes of people who are intelligent and looking for a new career. I think you may find better job security else where. Invest your time in classes and money else where. Nursing is honestly under great attack right now and the future is black.
Specializes in Med nurse in med-surg., float, HH, and PDN.
I feel like renaming this: "People really need to stop posting on this thread". We've gone around and around the subject 3,582 times (well okay, this is only the 480th post, but still.....);it's getting extremely repetitious. Since 'never the twain shall meet', I am unsubscribing. Y'all can carry on and continue to battle it out, but just in case you haven't noticed, nothing much is ever going to get resolved: we feel what we feel about the subject and who cares?
I work for a hospital that has a union. While I have met a lot of hard-working senior (not necessarily older) nurses, I have seen quite a few of the senior (not necessarily older) nurses who absolutely took advantage of being part of union by not pulling their own weight.
Older nurses shouldn't be forced to retire, but I don't think they should be expected any special privileges or treatment. Everyone should be required to work their fair share of weekends and holidays, as well as have equal workload. If the older nurse can't or won't meet the same requirements as all other nurses, then he/she should consider another field or setting that meets his/her wants and needs.
As for the nursing "shortage"...that term is a four-letter word to my ears. There are people, even older nurses, who think that it nurses will always be demand and that there are plenty of jobs. I wish! I am on month three of my job search, and it is soul-crushing. I am applying everywhere and haven't received an offer yet. Seasoned nurses don't realize how fortunate they were to graduate in an economy that was more nurse/new-grad friendly
.
I regret to inform you that things were not all that nurse/new grad friendly for many of us, and we ran our butts off trying to get a job - any job. We had two dates a year at a few distant cities to take NCLEX, and waited 2-3 months for results.
And as far as shirking work, the younger nurses do a fair share of that. If you got rid of the over 40s, there wouldn't be anyone to do the lifts for all the darling repeated pregonosaurs on the floor, that can barely lift a pen by 8-10 weeks, cannot take an ISO room because it is too hot and claustrophobic, can't take a procedure room because of heat issues, and have to pee every 30 minutes. And let's not forget post pregnancy, with repeated call ins and having to block up a room to pump.
Forget about anyone other than the oldsters taking an aerosolized ribovirin rooms. There are young nurses that admit to lying about trying to have a baby or possibly being pregnant, to get out of taking the ribovirin room - it's too much trouble. Out of 30 shifts, at one point, I had ribovirin rooms for 26 of them. Somehow hot flashes compounded by starting cancer meds that made it worse.
It is us oldsters that covered for 9 nurses on our unit that were pregnant, several of them very problematic pregnancies with people leaving mid shift and or out for much of the pregnancies or needing accommodations.
Do you suggest we kick them to the curb when they can't work to requirements?
The youngsters are also the ones that gripe most about weekends and holidays. I have worked every Christmas and have often declined call off, so that others could get their holiday. This year, I was due a medical leave at Christmas, related to cancer treatment. Do you not know that some staffers made witchy comments about me possibly being off the holiday, when some of the same planned their pregnancies to have them off several holidays?
At 50 years old, I had never taken more than a few weeks off with plenty of notice. I scheduled medical procedures for days off. I had never taken FMLA,unemployment (employed since 16), or disability. I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I worked the day before my surgery and went back to full time (40hrs a week) as soon my 6 week recovery from a total bilateral mastectomy with lymph node removal. I missed one day - they had to do 3 separate episodes of stereotactic biopsies to get a good specimen. This means I had a 9 guage needle (like a large nail) put into my breast about 3-4 inches or so and then remove tissue at different depths by a wire through it. All while conscious, not sedated, only lidocaine local, and with the breast crushed between two mammo plates. After the third one in the same breast, when the lidocaine wore off, I was oozing blood through the dressing, and couldn't move my arm from swelling. The one time that I called in.
Compare that to the hangover callins, the call off because they miss calculated their flight and won't get enough sleep. Or the 20 something comes in and works half assed, with a lot of load going to others. Etc.
Everyone has a time when they may need a little help and we pay
It forward, by doing so. No one expects to keep on those that are incompetent. But remember, you also will come upon a time when you made us to cut you some slack, and help you. Hopefully, some younger nurse doesn't tell to just quit, if can't lift that weight this week.
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
I work for a hospital that has a union. While I have met a lot of hard-working senior (not necessarily older) nurses, I have seen quite a few of the senior (not necessarily older) nurses who absolutely took advantage of being part of union by not pulling their own weight.
Older nurses shouldn't be forced to retire, but I don't think they should be expected any special privileges or treatment. Everyone should be required to work their fair share of weekends and holidays, as well as have equal workload. If the older nurse can't or won't meet the same requirements as all other nurses, then he/she should consider another field or setting that meets his/her wants and needs.
As for the nursing "shortage"...that term is a four-letter word to my ears. There are people, even older nurses, who think that it nurses will always be demand and that there are plenty of jobs. I wish! I am on month three of my job search, and it is soul-crushing. I am applying everywhere and haven't received an offer yet. Seasoned nurses don't realize how fortunate they were to graduate in an economy that was more nurse/new-grad friendly in which they could interview for a job on a Friday and have an offer that Monday morning.
Benefits and wages are definitely stagnant. Where I work, benefits are being slashed constantly and the older nurses have complained about having to work longer for the same/less retirement package, and rightly so!
I know plenty of nurses who work a full-time job in conjunction with at least one PRN job, sometimes several. But I consider that to be a positive part of nursing...you can work three days at full-time pay while having a side-job that brings in more bucks.
"Older" nurses aren't necessarily entitled to fewer weekends, fewer holidays or fewer "off" shifts, but that is one benefit of seniority. In most fields, the more senior people get more perks. If you stay with your job for a decade, you are absolutely entitled to more benefits than someone who just started here. And I speak as someone who uprooted herself after a quarter century of experience, 15 years in one hospital, with all of the extra vacation time and reduced holiday requirement that afforded me. I started over as a newbie in a new city and a new hospital -- with no seniority, no "perks." The people at my new job, many of them years younger than me with decades less experience had the reduced holiday, weekend and night shift requirement that I had left. They were entitled to it.
I think the lack of understanding of the "seniority" mentality is part of a generation gap. Fewer young people grew up familiar with a "union" culture.
In the non-union world a lot of us came from, seniority was not a valued quality. For a most of the non-union world, perks go to the high-performers who are not always the most senior.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
PREACH IT SISTER. Same where I work. The preggo's can't lift or do a lot of things. The oldies get to pull that weight because there is no one else to do so. Being senior anywhere I worked did not get any nurse I knew out of the heavy work.
Meantime......
The young drop like flies the MINUTE cold/flu season hits, calling out in excess of 5 or 6 times a month for this or that. I have not called out sick in years. I have never been on disability and I pull my weight (figuratively and literally). I never have called in sick d/t hangover that was from a party with selfies posted ALL OVER Facebook the day before with said employee. WOOPS yea the boss saw it; busted!!!!
The young I work with complain incessantly about" body aches" and being tired. SHOOOOT----- you don't know WHAT body aches and being tired are, and by the time you are my age, will probably be out on disability. Buck up and work out if you need to build strength and stamina enough to do the job. But you are in your 20s and really your body should not be breaking down already!
Please, STOP THE ageist comments already.
Both the old and young have a lot to offer. Let's just respect it..........stop bashing older nurses....
Really JUST STOP.
I regret to inform you that things were not all that nurse/new grad friendly for many of us, and we ran our butts off trying to get a job - any job. We had two dates a year at a few distant cities to take NCLEX, and waited 2-3 months for results.
And as far as shirking work, the younger nurses do a fair share of that. If you got rid of the over 40s, there wouldn't be anyone to do the lifts for all the darling repeated pregonosaurs on the floor, that can barely lift a pen by 8-10 weeks, cannot take an ISO room because it is too hot and claustrophobic, can't take a procedure room because of heat issues, and have to pee every 30 minutes. And let's not forget post pregnancy, with repeated call ins and having to block up a room to pump.
Forget about anyone other than the oldsters taking an aerosolized ribovirin rooms. There are young nurses that admit to lying about trying to have a baby or possibly being pregnant, to get out of taking the ribovirin room - it's too much trouble. Out of 30 shifts, at one point, I had ribovirin rooms for 26 of them. Somehow hot flashes compounded by starting cancer meds that made it worse.
It is us oldsters that covered for 9 nurses on our unit that were pregnant, several of them very problematic pregnancies with people leaving mid shift and or out for much of the pregnancies or needing accommodations.
Do you suggest we kick them to the curb when they can't work to requirements?
The youngsters are also the ones that gripe most about weekends and holidays. I have worked every Christmas and have often declined call off, so that others could get their holiday. This year, I was due a medical leave at Christmas, related to cancer treatment. Do you not know that some staffers made witchy comments about me possibly being off the holiday, when some of the same planned their pregnancies to have them off several holidays?
At 50 years old, I had never taken more than a few weeks off with plenty of notice. I scheduled medical procedures for days off. I had never taken FMLA,unemployment (employed since 16), or disability. I was diagnosed with breast cancer. I worked the day before my surgery and went back to full time (40hrs a week) as soon my 6 week recovery from a total bilateral mastectomy with lymph node removal. I missed one day - they had to do 3 separate episodes of stereotactic biopsies to get a good specimen. This means I had a 9 guage needle (like a large nail) put into my breast about 3-4 inches or so and then remove tissue at different depths by a wire through it. All while conscious, not sedated, only lidocaine local, and with the breast crushed between two mammo plates. After the third one in the same breast, when the lidocaine wore off, I was oozing blood through the dressing, and couldn't move my arm from swelling. The one time that I called in.
Compare that to the hangover callins, the call off because they miss calculated their flight and won't get enough sleep. Or the 20 something comes in and works half assed, with a lot of load going to others. Etc.
Everyone has a time when they may need a little help and we pay
It forward, by doing so. No one expects to keep on those that are incompetent. But remember, you also will come upon a time when you made us to cut you some slack, and help you. Hopefully, some younger nurse doesn't tell to just quit, if can't lift that weight this week.
Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
There is always the "unsubscribe" option. Meantime, others are enjoying participation.
I feel like renaming this: "People really need to stop posting on this thread". We've gone around and around the subject 3,582 times (well okay, this is only the 480th post, but still.....);it's getting extremely repetitious. Since 'never the twain shall meet', I am unsubscribing. Y'all can carry on and continue to battle it out, but just in case you haven't noticed, nothing much is ever going to get resolved: we feel what we feel about the subject and who cares?
I think the lack of understanding of the "seniority" mentality is part of a generation gap. Fewer young people grew up familiar with a "union" culture.
In the non-union world a lot of us came from, seniority was not a valued quality. For a most of the non-union world, perks go to the high-performers who are not always the most senior.
I agree with your sentiment and points made but respectfully disagree with the reasoning- the union aspect. There are LESS union jobs across the board in America than there were years ago. Union has become a dirty word.
I think people have no grasp of seniority because they are entitled and selfish and think they deserve rewards. I don't think union (or no) has much to do with it.
I worked somewhere that had a policy allowing those with 25 years' service to opt out of weekends, OR opt out of floats. Some chose the former, some the latter. There were never so many that were eligible for that perk that it mattered much to the units.
I don't see why offering such a perk is such a bad thing to some, especially to the degree of complaining about it. Why SHOULDN'T someone who has managed to stay with one employer not reap the benefit of a little extra consideration?
I'm not equating pregnancy pitching in with weekend-off bonuses, BUT let's face it: all those many many little things over the years (like picking up extra patients, heavy patients, iso and/or total care patients) so that those who WERE pregnant could get THEIR bit of extra consideration....why not have it paid off this way? Why begrudge someone who has already proven themselves valuable? Why does everything have to be equal to be fair? Answer: it doesn't.
I agree with your sentiment and points made but respectfully disagree with the reasoning- the union aspect. There are LESS union jobs across the board in America than there were years ago. Union has become a dirty word.
Maybe I'm misreading RNperdiem, but the way I'm reading it you two are in agreement regarding unions and how they might affect today's employees as relates to seniority issues. She said that fewer young people have had experience with unions (meaning fewer unions today in general) and that's what you're saying....she said that there were more union jobs years ago, and you said there are less union jobs today....which sounds the same....yes?
If I'm totally off, Back to Regularly Scheduled Programming :)
Everyone has a time when they may need a little help and we pay
It forward, by doing so. No one expects to keep on those that are incompetent. But remember, you also will come upon a time when you made us to cut you some slack, and help you. Hopefully, some younger nurse doesn't tell to just quit, if can't lift that weight this week.
I am all for teamwork and helping others...temporarily. If someone has a back injury, I would be more than happen to turn and lift their patient. If someone is heavily pregnant, I don't mind doing more of the heavy work. If a person is undergoing cancer treatment, they should have the easier assignments.
But if someone will never be able or refuses to meet all requirements and duties of his/her job...don't you think that person would be better off in a less physically and mentally demanding setting, like a clinic or a doctor's office? This applies to not only the older nurses, but the younger ones as well.
Maybe I'm misreading RNperdiem, but the way I'm reading it you two are in agreement regarding unions and how they might affect today's employees as relates to seniority issues. She said that fewer young people have had experience with unions (meaning fewer unions today in general) and that's what you're saying....she said that there were more union jobs years ago, and you said there are less union jobs today....which sounds the same....yes?
If I'm totally off, Back to Regularly Scheduled Programming :)
It does sound the same. I was reading it differently.
My close friend had a 2.6 grade point average when applying to nursing schools several years ago. Although she's not the most academically gifted person by a long shot, she is now a director of nurses at a local healthcare facility.
I find nurses who are B/C students are more than capable. Getting straight As means nothing when you lack common sense!!!!! I bet your friend is great in what she is doing!!!!
No Stars In My Eyes
5,627 Posts
I feel like renaming this: "People really need to stop posting on this thread". We've gone around and around the subject 3,582 times (well okay, this is only the 480th post, but still.....);it's getting extremely repetitious. Since 'never the twain shall meet', I am unsubscribing. Y'all can carry on and continue to battle it out, but just in case you haven't noticed, nothing much is ever going to get resolved: we feel what we feel about the subject and who cares?