People really need to stop coming into nursing

dinah77, ADN · Feb 13, 2015

Here are my thoughts on this hotly contested issue.
1. The lowest-quality nursing programs need to be closed.
2. Nursing needs to do a better job of controlling the numbers of new entrants into this profession. Other health professions such as medicine, physical therapy and speech language pathology maintain tight control over the number of people who enter those occupations.
3. Nursing needs to implement slightly higher barriers to entry. Moreover, entry requirements should be standardized and consistent across the country.
4. Nursing needs to adopt limits on the number of times that candidates are allowed to repeatedly take NCLEX. You cannot pass after 10 attempts? Step aside, please. Aspiring attorneys are not permitted to keep retaking the bar exam as many times as they want, and I think nursing needs to follow that model.
5. Nursing is one of the few professions that produces large numbers of graduates who feel entitled to employment in their hometowns. Meanwhile, graduates who enter other professions keenly expect to relocate to land their first jobs.
Overall, I predict the glut will continue to worsen. The powers that be expect all 'older' nurses to drop out of the workforce in the next decade, but real life simply does not unfold in that manner.

Especially #2. Yes yes and yes. For proof of this, check out the thread about anti-vax nurses. Ridiculous that so many people so confused about scientific principles are RNS

Jules A, MSN · Feb 13, 2015

I wish a survey existed that could show the percentage of new grads from these crappy schools who can't hold onto a job once they get one!

Or a survey on the ones from those crappy schools who now are called "Doctor", got hired based on their fancy credentials and are attempting to run a unit.

No Stars In My Eyes · Feb 13, 2015

Expecting people to stop going to nursing schools is like hoping the nice, small city you moved to will stay nice and small forever. I can't tell you how many nice, small cities have been 'discovered', publicized, and bloomed into clones of other bigger cities. Atlanta, Georgia used to be a smallish city (yes, in my lifetime!). Nashville, Tennessee, the last time I went back (after having lived there for 5 years) well, it hadn't just bloomed, it exploded.

People keep getting born and places that were once special for their_________(fill in the blank) have grown and grown and grown. The condos and hotels keep getting built, sections of town get gentrified, then the people who live there can't afford to live there anymore, and the only jobs left are service jobs taking care of those who can afford to live there.

This may sound way off the subject, but believe me, it is the same template laid over the nursing school / nursing jobs ; it all follows the same trail.....yup, the $$$.

Quick, everybody make as much money as possible no matter the consequences.And no one is exempt, cause it just keeps moving to the next 'big' thing.

Good-bye Middle Class.

elkpark · Feb 13, 2015

2. Nursing needs to do a better job of controlling the numbers of new entrants into this profession. Other health professions such as medicine, physical therapy and speech language pathology maintain tight control over the number of people who enter those occupations.
3. Nursing needs to implement slightly higher barriers to entry. Moreover, entry requirements should be standardized and consistent across the country.

Of course, one of the ways the other professions you mention do this by requiring significantly higher levels of education than nursing currently does -- graduate degrees as minimum entry to practice. We see how much success nursing has had with even suggesting a baccalaureate level as the minimum education for licensure ...

I do agree with all your points, however.

elkpark · Feb 13, 2015

The overabundance of nursing schools pumping out new grads is not confined to nursing school. The universities as a whole have been campaigning for decdes that if you don't get a college degree, then you can't be successful while the trades have been hurting for workers. A big trucking company last year had to sell many of their semi trucks, not because of lack of business but because they had too many trucks sitting unused because of the lack of drivers. Then you have Obama pushing a bill for free 2 yrs of college. How about funneling the money towards encouraging high school grads into trade schools? There are too many highly educated college graduates working at Wal-Mart and Starbucks. I am sorry to say that Billy, who barely graduated high school, doesn't want to want to work and just wants to party, should not be getting grants and student loans to go to college for a year to party just so the universities can collect more tuition money.

Obama isn't pushing any "free two years of college;" he's pushing specifically two years of free community college, part of the point being that community colleges offer many vocational training programs that do lead to jobs in skilled trades.

canigraduate · Feb 13, 2015

I'm becoming a huge fan of standardized entry standards and preparation for nursing, whatever level you want it to be.

I had some clinical students who can't perform basic math, such as if you need 650 mg of Tylenol and have a bottle of 325 mg tablets, how many tablets should you take out?

Drives me crazy that I had to teach this so some of them could pass the med calc test.

NewYorkerGirl · Feb 13, 2015

If this happens in STEM like it has in nursing, I wonder if it will dilute the field, water down the skill level, and reduce salaries.

Already happening in engineering. I have two cousins who are engineers, and they are having trouble getting raises and good jobs (they are both stuck paying their dues right now, working jobs they hate). HB1 visas are to blame. Same thing happens in education, too many grads from too many teaching schools and fast-track insta-teacher programs.

Employers and politicians will always find a way to screw workers. Different industry, same ish.

Ashley_SF, BSN · Feb 13, 2015

I graduated with my BSN from a bay area university back in 2012. I looked for a job for nearly 18 months, across the country, before finally landing a dialysis job and relocating to the valley. While I do agree that I see some RNs of my generation and question their competency, I also see RNs who have been in the field for 20+ years and am horrified at their practice. I am amazed that they haven't seriously harmed someone.

I decided I wanted to a be a nurse when I was a child. I watched the hospice nurse come into our home and care for my dying father. I was inspired by her patience, warmth and compassion. I'm a nurse because I want to improve the quality of life of my patients and their families. Frankly, it's insulting to read some of the comments on this thread from people who have been in this profession for years. Maybe you've forgotten what it's like to be the new kid on the block. We novice nurses don't need to be coddled and we don't need our hands held, but we do need to be encouraged and supported.

Nursing is like anything else in life, there are good apples and there are bad apples. Let's not lump all of us new grad nurses into one category.

Libby1987 · Feb 13, 2015

I'm becoming a huge fan of standardized entry standards and preparation for nursing, whatever level you want it to be.
I had some clinical students who can't perform basic math, such as if you need 650 mg of Tylenol and have a bottle of 325 mg tablets, how many tablets should you take out?
Drives me crazy that I had to teach this so some of them could pass the med calc test.

That's a gross exaggeration, right?

And if it's not, why would you help them? Why would a clinical student of any kind be supported through school when they aren't able to independently perform basic math?

bethann27 · Feb 13, 2015

That's a gross exaggeration, right?
And if it's not, why would you help them? Why would a clinical student of any kind be supported through school when they aren't able to independently perform basic math?

YES! I would be greatly concerned if my grade schooler had trouble with that. That scares me ....ALOT.

dcwang · Feb 13, 2015

I had some clinical students who can't perform basic math, such as if you need 650 mg of Tylenol and have a bottle of 325 mg tablets, how many tablets should you take out?

that's why a lot of people who shouldn't be in nursing are in nursing and for profit schools are in business.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Feb 13, 2015

None of you will like what i have to say. But let me kick the hard truth to you. Honestly about 50% of people i talk to are in nursing school or are taking pre reqs for nursing school. This is a major red flag for several reasons. If you have not noticed, nursing wages/benefits have been on the down trend. Pension?? goodbye. Crud 401k 403b plans hello. Raise? LOL "sorry hospital is working out financial issues, maybe next year". Nevermind if you work for a community/SNF agency. But yet insurance companies, medicare derived/gov agencies, and anyone else from the top 1% will continue to blast the RN as "shortage" in order to drive drones of students into nursing schools pulling each others hair out on the way to land a seat. Proof of this is lets see (ABSN ***** adn, bsn, diploma, LPN/LVN bridge to RN programs, RN to bsn) why do these different routes exist? To flood the RN market as fast as possible to drive the wage, need, and profession into the ground.
Lets look at our oh so loyal CNA's. If you can find one that isnt in nursing school to be a nurse, ask them how much they make? Look at LPN's 20-30 years ago and look at them today?? Surely the ANA and other organizations treated them with respect. The RN is next, so make sure to support your local nursing agency so they can do nothing for you. So they can be paid off by organizations so powerful that no one can say no and "not have the power to stop a bill". So they can continue to cry nursing shortage when this is not true.
RNs today are treated like children and are required to demonstrate fundamental task and other skills in inservices which were designed for nothing else but cut throat. To place blame of UTI's and poor patient satisfaction on the nurse. If you are an RN today, your only safety net if to become an APRN if you want to live comfortably. But in several decades the aprn will be under attack just like the LPN had been an RNs currently are. "OH the aging population is going to need nurses" you really think so. Nursing homes are shutting down and now elderly people live at home with "24 hour care takers" that get paid $H!t wages and do things only an RN should be doing. You dont think so? wake up.
None of this is to say that i hate nursing. I love helping people who are mentally ill, suffering from dementia, sick, or on their death beds. It is when we do great things for them that my love for nursing shines. There arent other people standing around to reward you for your great deeds. When the family comes in the next day complaining about everything, they never had a chance to see how well their dieing love one was cared for. Your good deeds will never be rewarded, but in a safe place in your heart. I am just here to open the eyes of people who are intelligent and looking for a new career. I think you may find better job security else where. Invest your time in classes and money else where. Nursing is honestly under great attack right now and the future is black.
Work Cited
http://bhw.hrsa.gov/healthworkforce/supplydemand/nursing/workforceprojections/nursingprojections.pdf

Your post doesn't sound as if you love nursing, or that your love for nursing shines. It says you're an unhappy employee who is trying to discourage others from joining the profession. It sounds angry and bitter. Your "hard truth" isn't my truth.

It's unfortunate that inferior nursing schools are accepting students who cannot get into a good school, and that they're cranking out graduates who cannot pass the basic licensing exam after umpteen tries. Those nursing schools need to close. The schools that are so difficult to get into -- those are the schools whose standards ought to be lauded. Perhaps those standards need to be, well, standard across the country. If anyone who cannot get into the brick and mortar University of "My State" school cannot then get into an wildly expensive for profit school (and rack up tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt) perhaps we wouldn't have such a glut of nurses on the market. But that's not the entire problem.

I have no problem with the associate's degree as an entry level to nursing. Some of the best nurses I work with have associate's degrees and (dare I say it?) diplomas. It makes a lot more sense to me than requiring a Master's degree as entry level. I've precepted ADN nurses and MSN nurses -- the difference is in the size of debt accumulated.

While it's true that our wages were frozen and our benefits declined for several years (while the economy in general tanked), my husband and I both had jobs. And I got a very nice raise last year. I don't know what the CEO of our hospital got, but I'm not unhappy with my paycheck at all.

There isn't a nursing shortage right now -- we all know that. There IS a shortage of experienced nurses to precept all the new grads that the nursing schools are cranking out -- most of whom only intend to stay in their new job as long as it takes to get into anesthesia school or to graduate from an NP program. There IS a shortage of nurses who want to actually take care of patients, stay at the bedside and take satisfaction from what can be (and has been for me) a very challenging, interesting and satisfying career. And there IS a shortage of new graduates who have some idea of what a nursing career (or even a first nursing job) will entail. Nights, weekends and holidays are all part of the package. As are poop, pee and 12 hour shifts. Anyone who graduates from whatever program expecting to be a nurse leader from the start clearly hasn't done their homework. Yet we find these new grads every single semester.

Experienced, competent RNs are not treated like children, morons or menials. CEOs have managed to figure out that hospitals exist to provide nursing care. Surgery is a moneymaker, to be sure, but why have beds in which patients can recover without nurses to care for them? Becoming an APRN isn't the only safety net -- schools are cranking out too many NPs as well. Our area is fully saturated with CRNAs as well. Bedside nursing is still needed, and if you go into it with a positive attitude it can be a great career. Unfortunately, all too few new grads want to actually be nurses.

My friends who went to college for business degrees, engineering or teaching all expected to graduate and move to wherever they could land that first job. Yes, some had a preference for the home town and some wanted to live in Boston or New York or LA . . . but they all expected that when they graduated, they'd have to move somewhere for their job. And they were willing to do that. Nurses, unfortunately, don't seem to be as willing to move to get that first job and the much-needed experience. Yes, it sucks that the most jobs are in rural North Dakota and you want to live in Florida. Yes it sucks that new grads don't make enough money to immediately buy that three bedroom house in the suburbs AND a brand new luxury car. New teachers and accountants are pretty much in the same boat, and most of them had to have roommates the first few years. Now people expect to live with Mom and Dad (and Mom and Dad paying the bills) until they can afford that three bedroom house in the suburbs. So if the new job is in Kansas and Mom and Dad live in Milwaukee, that's a problem. But the problem is in expectations, not in nursing.

Good deeds? Caring for the sick and dying is our JOB, not a good deed. If you need recognition for doing your JOB, then you're not self-motivated. Think about the last time you recognized your accountant for getting you that tax refund or the mechanic who saved your life when he repaired your brakes.

This is long enough. I'm going to see what other folks had to say about your negative post.