I was just wondering why it was so awful to discuss wages. i understand that some nurses have more experience and should get paid more than me. it just concerns me that one can be terminated from the job for discussing pay, when all you hear about is the demand for nurses. Am i missing the big picture?
Any info. would be great.
-side question. what is the basic pay rate for fairly new lpn. A job prospect offered $11.25/hr. that seems low to me. that's 3 dollors less than my last job.
Now that I'm officially between jobs, I don't mind discussing what I was paid per hour.......which sucked for all the hard labor I gave the place. Anyhoo.......my hourly rate was $25.06 and hour to start, and increased to $25.46 at departure from the position. Nurses will never be paid what we are worth to big companies, hospitals, etc. Labor is still being hired "cheap" and they don't want to respect nurses for all the labor we give them in return. No longer will I work for so little. Pay me, or see ya!
Last job I worked, a night shift nurse found out she was making almost 2.50 less than a nurse w/o 2 years experience. She really blew her top, went to the manager and presented her info, got a immediate 3.00 raise on the hour. The kicker was, new nurse transfered to another department, less demanding work, no weekends/no holidays and was given a .50 raise. All of this was not based on qualifications but because the new nurse was involved with managers nephew and had a baby by him. He did not work at a steady job, so she made the family's living wage. People reading this post may think I am just writing gossip but I know this is true. Another nurse I know was the aunt of this new nurse and she really got a kick out of telling her close associates how the experienced nurse was shafted. I am a firm believer that we will never have good wages without union representation. I know that does not win support among a lot of readers on this board, but union always does beter wage wise that nonunion where I come from.
Getting back to the experienced nurse, she could have had her pick of several jobs, with more pay and better hours, but she did not want to make a change. SO, she was/is responsible for her lack of earnings.
I have been looking for a job and I can tell you that as soon as you ask the question about wages, the interviewer gets a look of severe pain. They want a "don't ask/don't tell" policy. I think I am entitled to full disclosure to all info that will affect my paycheck. Those companies who do not want to tell me, they are marked off of my list fast.
One of the biggest reasons administrations do not want you discussing pay is that they are giving newly-hired nurses, with or without comparable experience more, much more, pay than those who have been there for 15, 20, 25 or 30 years! They don't want a revolt. We are dealing with this, again, in negotiations again this year.
That's it. And it happened to me. I found out that the new grad pay was going to be .03 more than I made with 7 years of experience. Now granted it was only 3 cents - but NEW GRADS SHOULD NOT MAKE MORE THAN EXPERIENCED NURSES. I found out because the hospital openly publishes its new grad rate. Went to my manager, asked her to compensate me fairly - she went to HR (because she thought it was wrong too) and was denied. Turned in my 2 week notice the next day.
It has been my experience that nothing makes a person unhappier than finding out that so-and-so makes more than they do. I've been in the position to ask for a higher rate, and get it-while others at a comparable rate settled for what they were offered. I've found- it never hurts to ask, and I usually get what I ask for.
I've also found that at certain times- a facility will raise their starting pay rate to stay competative, without raising current employees rates to match. So-someone walking in off the street can be starting at a rate higher than what someone already there is getting, or very close to it. It's not that new employees are worth more- it just to attract them to your facility. If the place down the street is paying more-where do you think their going to go?
It's just bad business to discuss your rate of pay. Makes for some very unhappy employees.
It would be like going to a store, and a couch is one price for one person, and a different price for another person, and it's the exact same couch.
The inherit problem here is that noone is the "same". While I may bust my hump for eight hours and do the best job I can- the nurse next door sits on hers and does only the barest of minimums. Where I am always there to lend a helping hand when needed, the nurse next door has no "time" or inclination to help out- she says with a folded newspaper in her lap and a nailfile in hand. Or how about the nurse who is always willing to pick up the extra shifts when there is a call-off or a short-staffing verses the one who works her eight and bolts for the door? Or how about the one who has multiple med errors and reprimandes on file, while I have none? Should this nurse be paid more than I am just because she's been there longer? Or should pay scales be variable, dependant on the workers actual job performance? What each of us as an employee are worth to that company?
As my earlier post states- I am a firm beleiver in negotiating wages. I ask for what I'm worth- and I prove that worth over and over. If you feel that your being underpaid-as for more. The worst they can do is say no.
I agree with Jenac about two nurse that have the same experience and one is a team player and one is not, but they make the same salary per hour. That always has gotten to me. But would I trade merit based salary for an objective salary scale negotiated by a union. No Way! Yeah there will be some nurse who shouldn't make what they do but at least you don't have to worry about a less experienced nurse making more that you.
Our pay scale is very open. A copy of our contract is on every unit which includes the pay scale. A new grad will never get hired in at more than an experienced nurse. We have Clinical ladder with level I, II, III. The nurses who serve on committees and go the extra mile can apply for the staff nurse III position. Everyone is hired in as a staff nurse II, the staff nurse I has become obsolete. Then within the ladder you go up steps depending how many years you have worked there, with step 9 being the highest. There is no hush hush about pay scales as anyone knows what anyone else is at by knowing how long they have worked there and whether they are a nurse II or III.
"They don't want it discussed because they are paying different people different amounts,and don't want it known, because it stinks like rotten fish."
That is, UNLESS you work in a union facility. In a union facility you are paid according to experience, time to the facility, and, in some portions of the country, for your degree [bSN more than ADN ie] etc.
The idea that unions suck because poor workers stay is perhaps true on an occasional worker basis and so does NOT advance the condition of any nurse is just inaccurate. Tell me what nurse you know that doesn't work hard? Really, after 20 years in the profession, I can think of only a few slackers, and those I quickly went to both my UNION and ADMINISTRATION about.I am willing to take it up with my union if they allow a colleague to underperform at my expense.
By sticking together via unions, we assure a [more, not yet entirely fair] pay scale for work performed, and increases based on experience and loyalty [ Really, if the place keeps you employed , how DARE they infer you are not entitled to an increase based on merit...they are willing to keep you, you should see an increase AT least equal to inflation, while the union assure an increase equal to what ALL nurses get.
I don't, frankly, understand the objection to nursing unions. Nurses are NOT slackers in general, are overworked and underpaid as a professional whole, are NOT inclined to the kind of self advocacy evident in other professions [in which profit yield of the corporation are equivalent to that experienced by the nurses employer] . Only by speaking of our wage in open discussion through our mutual advocacy group are we assured the power we are entitled to regarding our wage.
The idea that unions suck because poor workers stay is perhaps true on an occasional worker basis and so does NOT advance the condition of any nurse is just inaccurate. Tell me what nurse you know that doesn't work hard? Really, after 20 years in the profession, I can think of only a few slackers, and those I quickly went to both my UNION and ADMINISTRATION about.I am willing to take it up with my union if they allow a colleague to underperform at my expense.
I used to believe in unions.
However, the two unionized hospitals that I have worked had possibly the most lazy, donothing staffers among the unionized staff (the RNs were not union). Many of these people I would not want caring for my worst enemy.
But quite honestly, with the Nursing shortage, I have seen many mediocre staff be able to stay on for years, union or otherwise. The idea is that they are better than nothing. Unfortunately, their behavior sucks the enthusiasm away from the good employees, and their slack behavior drags the whole unit down.
And sometimes keeping them does more damage to morale of the other staff than they are worth.
It kind of reminds me of treating people for pain. It is far better to err on the side of maybe medicating a drug seeker(someone just want the other effects of pain med) than to withhold pain med from someone who really needs it.
It is much better to have a union where wages are paid based on seniority and experience and maybe carry a few slackers, then to pay new hires more than experienced nurses and have staff being resentful.
"However, the two unionized hospitals that I have worked had possibly the most lazy, donothing staffers among the unionized staff (the RNs were not union). Many of these people I would not want caring for my worst enemy. "
Ok, so you're unionized personnel was not nursing. Point taken, and my point accentuated. Nursing has few slackers, in general we are VERY hard working and deserving of knowing our own, and other's worth [best described in the union arena]
as for Batmik with "It kind of reminds me of treating people for pain. It is far better to err on the side of maybe medicating a drug seeker(someone just want the other effects of pain med) than to withhold pain med from someone who really needs it.It is much better to have a union where wages are paid based on seniority and experience and maybe carry a few slackers, then to pay new hires more than experienced nurses and have staff being resentful.
It's not as hush-hush as you might think. Nurses discuss salaries all the time -- even though it may cause dissention -- each nurse needs to advocate for him/herself. And NEVER start a job without getting your salary down in writing ... NEVER. If administration won't sign ... don't take the position. Another point, I've heard nurses get riled up about so & so's salaries ... don't believe everything that you hear...
It's not as hush-hush as you might think. Nurses discuss salaries all the time -- even though it may cause dissention -- each nurse needs to advocate for him/herself. And NEVER start a job without getting your salary down in writing ... NEVER. If administration won't sign ... don't take the position. Another point, I've heard nurses get riled up about so & so's salaries ... don't believe everything that you hear...
live4today, RN
5,099 Posts
Now that I'm officially between jobs, I don't mind discussing what I was paid per hour.......which sucked for all the hard labor I gave the place.
Anyhoo.......my hourly rate was $25.06 and hour to start, and increased to $25.46 at departure from the position. Nurses will never be paid what we are worth to big companies, hospitals, etc. Labor is still being hired "cheap" and they don't want to respect nurses for all the labor we give them in return. No longer will I work for so little. Pay me, or see ya! 