I was just wondering why it was so awful to discuss wages. i understand that some nurses have more experience and should get paid more than me. it just concerns me that one can be terminated from the job for discussing pay, when all you hear about is the demand for nurses. Am i missing the big picture?
Any info. would be great.
-side question. what is the basic pay rate for fairly new lpn. A job prospect offered $11.25/hr. that seems low to me. that's 3 dollors less than my last job.
Why is anyone even interviewing without knowing what the basic pay scale is the for position? It is such a waste of time and in this RN and LVN job market employers need to state up front, at least to a suitably qualified applicant, what the scale is.
But tntrn is so right. Sometimes the new grad is earning more than a senior person because the facility had to offer more to recruit new grads.
I believe we should be firm about knowing the basics before we prep ourselves for an interview etc. And this will slowly leak out and make a fairer playing field for those who have been at the facility for a long time and who have missed out on the 'shortage of nurses' increase in rates.
Specializes in OB, Telephone Triage, Chart Review/Code.
Well, here is one reason why...I just found out that a CNA where I work is making $11.00/hr! Granted, she has worked there many years and plans to retire next year. I am happy she makes that much. In this day and age, it is very difficult to survive on $9.00/hr and there are those still trying to make a living on $5.00/hr. But what she makes is a lot more than I thought she was making.
I made the decision when I moved here that I was not going to work on the floor any more (at least for now). I have been interviewing at out patient clinics mostly. So the pay scale is not well known among other nurses in the area. Hospital pay is easy to find out from other nurses in the area. But when you are trying to get away from the hospital, the pay is a little trickier to find out at other facilities.
Indie, how would you go about finding out the pay rate before a formal interview? When I speak to employers over the phone for the first time, I don't ask pay rate. What do you think about that and how would you approach it on the phone during the first contact?
I usually do make the effort to go to the interview and have a pay scale in mind. My low and high is usually already set. Once I interview, I then know if it is of interest to me. Then I talk about pay, if I'm even interested. Like I said earlier, the interview is for myself as well as the employer.
Maybe I am wearing myself out with all these interviews. Is it appropriate to talk money before even going to the company? I always want to ask, but it just doesn't seem right when I am on the phone at the time. Any opinions would be appreciated.
Frankly I think they're holding just another sword over the employees' heads. Pay grades give a general idea, but when someone looks around and sees (like I did in the 1980's) the new grads were coming in at MORE than I was making after working there for 10 years with 16 years of experience!!! We RN's got together and had a word of prayer with personnel. RNs got a $6/hr pay raise (and RNs were assigned two pay grades 0-6 years and 7-up) within the day!!!
Where I work we all discuss our pay rates. Everyone knows each others pay within a few cents or so. We belong to a union so our scale is very public. None of us really care if Admin knows we know or not. Mike
I thought I read some place that an employer cannot fire you for discussing your rate of pay with a co-worker.
Might be worth looking into.
They do not want it discussed because they have something to hide period.
If they can insist that you list your pay from previous employers and list your expected pay on your application then you can insist they tell you their payscale.
Yea, on more than one occasion I have been flabbergasted to be "hired" without a mention of pay. It has only been since I have been in nursing that I see this.
Then when I ask before accepting of course, they act suprised that I ask.
I did not sign a vow of poverty when I got my license. These are not listed as volunteer positions. And further more I have had volunteer positions where I did receive some compensation and or reimbursement.
Why don't y'all use some of that fancy-smancy communication technique:)
Understand what the potential employer's apprehension is all about...........privacy. So before you would begin a personal dialogue, you have to put the interviewer at ease and calm thier fears before any useful communication can occur.
Just tell them "before we get started, I want you to know that I won't discuss anything we say with potential or current employees, whether I'm hired or not (of course, you're no more sincere than they are) That being said, there's important information that I need from you before we continue"
That way you're in control from the start and the potential employer can relax the ol' sphincter for a bit.
You know what surprises me most of all,they always ask you on the app what your expected salary.Then they don't want to talk about what they have to offer.I never thought I would be out looking for a different job after this long at one job,but looking at different places in the last month has been an adventure to say the least.One place had a preprinted table of all the rates with the app.That was nice and convenient.They were the only ones so far.
I will not keep my wages a secret! This is more managment b.s. I one worked at an icu with 7 year exp making more than 2 nurses who had ben there 20 and 21 years. Thats a bunch or you know what! Pt confidentiality i can do, nurse salary ask and Ill tell you what you want to know. I do know my salary is going no where but up. I presently make 37-40 an hr daily agency. I wouldnt interview for a position without knowing salary. Its a waste of mine and their time. Oh and the big kicker is the manager gets a big bonus for screwing you on your salary. Im all for nurses, yet i see the division amoung us every day. Hope everyone is having a good day!
it just concerns me that one can be terminated from the job for discussing pay, when all you hear about is the demand for nurses. Am i missing the big picture?
Any info. would be great.[/b]
Big picture? The really big picture is it's been a huge fight that started late in the 19th century. Workers realized they were getting exploited, getting paid mere pennies per hundred dollars of revenue they brought in. They banded together. Result was unionizing, birth of socialism, communism, all kinds of -isms to get working people a larger piece of the pie. And it's been a tense knock-down fight ever since.
The same forces are still at odds today.
** The less money you take means more money for someone else, period. **
Employers don't want you talking about it b/c it tends to make it more difficult for them negotiate a lower wage. If each and every wage earner negotiates for themselves, mgmt can take advantage of the those who are less skilled at negotiation. ** If you don't know what your peers are earning, you are in a weak negotiating posture. **
They have an inherant negotiating advantage when salary information is kept secret.
Case in point, several years ago, my best friend, an exemplary employee, was making $35k for years (with the usually 2-4% annual increases). She started discreetly asking around to friends and associates and discovered she was vastly underpaid. With that information and resolve to get a better deal, she went to her manager. The meeting lasted all of 5 minutes. Manager's reply was something like "I wondered when you would figure this out". She asked for and got a 55% increase. At first she was quite angry that people she worked with would take advantage of her for years. And quickly discovered that's a waste of emotional energy and time. ** Her manager's job is to get the BEST help at the CHEAPEST price. ** That's capitalism -- American as apple pie.
My advice to anyone in the work force:
1. *Discreetly* learn how flout to this rule
2. Learn the art of diplomacy and negotiation
Discreetly figure out what others are making. It's a lot easier with the internet and salary surveys. Firsthand information is always better. Figure out how to have conversations with trusted co-workers, ex co-workers (excellant sources of information), friends at similiar companies. My wife invites the HR hiring rep out to lunch every so often -- just to establish a relationship.
Figuring out what others make can at first be a tricky conversation -- and you can learn how to do it. Approximately 25 - 33% of your peers have learned this skill. Mgmt want to keep that number low as possible -- hence draconian punishments if you "talk about it openly".
In my career, I've made it a skill to learn what other people make. As a contractor -- it's was the difference between mediocre contract and a good one. Hey, either I got the $$ or the agency did. Case in point: For a unique computer application job, the agency offered me $24 per hour and a big ole smile. I was prepared. I walked out with a deal at $37 per hour. Given my skills, experience, and *negotiating posture* that was my true market value. They charged the client $110 per hour regardless. It cost me a only a couple of beers to figure that one out. I knew all this by developing some key relationships and then (directly or indirectly) asking.
indie
102 Posts
Why is anyone even interviewing without knowing what the basic pay scale is the for position? It is such a waste of time and in this RN and LVN job market employers need to state up front, at least to a suitably qualified applicant, what the scale is.
But tntrn is so right. Sometimes the new grad is earning more than a senior person because the facility had to offer more to recruit new grads.
I believe we should be firm about knowing the basics before we prep ourselves for an interview etc. And this will slowly leak out and make a fairer playing field for those who have been at the facility for a long time and who have missed out on the 'shortage of nurses' increase in rates.