I recently received a published form from the State of Florida showing that ARNPs increased 22% over the past two years. RNs only increased by 7.4% If you are a new grad wondering why you can't find a position here is your answer. Our NP mills have pumped out too many graduates for the demand of society. I don't have the data to back it up but if this is happening in Florida I would assume it is happening around the nation.
I'm licensed in Florida but moved to California years ago because I could see the tsunami of new graduates slowly starting to erode the wages of established NPs. It's now happening here in California and I have been directly affected. I can count at least another dozen of my NP colleagues around the nation who are complaining of wage deflation happening because new grads will accept a position at almost any wage. Starting wages are below those for RNs in some cases.
For those of you thinking of becoming a NP think and long and hard before you commit your money and your time. The job is enjoyable but the return on investment is declining year after the year with the flooding of the markets. Maybe one day the leaders of our nursing schools will open a book on economics and understand the relationship between supply and demand rather than stuff another useless nursing theory down our throats.
Even if you are doing distance DNP you still need to do clinicals. One of the things they make clear are the number of clinical hours required and I really liked that. I live in VA and so the question didn’t come up for me. Perhaps from a compact state would do? You should email them and ask. It might have something to do with their certifications or access to funding? They have been extremely responsive, professional and polite through the whole process for me.
You will find that this list covers many of the online distance education NP programs in the nation https://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/nursing/rankings . One of the parameters not covered in the list is whether or not they will find you preceptors, and whether or not if they do that they guarantee that they will find them locally. In 2015 (when I started my program) I contacted about eight schools on the 2014 list and none would guarantee local placement (where I lived). All of them advised me that they would "try", but that it may be necessary for me to move for all or part of my clinical experience. Some also required campus visits (for example Frontier requires two for MSN and three if you add the DNP).
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
19 hours ago, myoglobin said:
As long as you think it should be optional we have no disagreement. Have you guys encountered distance education schools that are able to place students at diverse locations around the nation? If so they should be applauded. If they can do it for under $500.00 per credit hour then they are even more impressive. I couldn't care a whit if anyone agrees with me. You may not be moving towards regulations that require preceptors to be provided, but others are and if they succeed you will see both cost and access decreased. As to whether anyone agrees with me I really couldn't care even on little bit.
Johns Hopkins has moved to distance education for many of its NP programs and they find preceptors. As I have repeatedly stated, don't just look at the "list" price. Hopkins has a lot of financial aid and access to scholarships.
I want to feel optimistic about future of our profession. I think problems start at the beginning. Education of NPs is (Both MSN and DNP) lagging way behind PA schools. I still don't understand the fact that how can some schools including really reputable ones requiring NP students to arrange for their clinical placements after charging them thousands of dollars in tuition. NP schools are not as selective as PA schools, a lot of them don't require GRE or any other examination. RN experience at some cases reduced or not even required. Online programs are not helping either. It should be more standardized approach to NP education. Unfortunately, it became a financially lucrative option for colleges and universities. in the meantime new grads are stuck with student loans and low paying new grad positions.
Quality of the NP programs vary, yes but I think clinical hours should be be increased.Pediatrics, gerontology, women's health rotations should be more robust and supported by the NP programs should not fall on student's shoulders. I think that would increase our negotiation power.
Well said! I live in the suburbs- north of Detroit. I have had my FNP for 4 years and it is sad to say we are oversaturated in the area as well. I worked for 2 separate private doctors a day to try and get 32 hours a week with an hourly wage. I have no benefits since its part time from each doctor. If one doctor goes on vacation, I do not receive hours, thus no pay. I have put in more then 20 applications to different areas at various hospitals and nothing. When I interviewed for a Gastroenterology MD I knew as a nurse prior, I did not receive the NP job due to competition with PA that had 10 years of PA experience in rapid response team versus someone with 4 years of NP Gastroenterology experience like myself. She had no GI experience and the MD simply said she is a PA, school is direct and structured.
I try applying to nursing job and I get declined due to "overqualified," so where am I supposed to go? Cant get a job as an NP and cant get a job as an RN?
More RN's are needed to run the hospital not midlevels (NP's, PA's). That is why I still see lots of job openings for RN's. Otherwise you will get more midlevel providers then RN's- which feels that it is heading that direction.
Nursing in general is going to hurt itself due to churning out so many RNs and NPs, 25 percent of which shouldn't be there. Not to mention there isnt enough men.
Nursing in general is going to hurt itself due to churning out so many RNs and NPs, 25 percent of which shouldn't be there. Not to mention there isnt enough men.
I think nursing is such a difficult job that it drives away a lot of good people, too
I read this thread from beginning to the end and I have got to say I am terrified of going on to NP. I am already enrolled and set up to start an FNP program in September, but this thread scares me. I dont want to spend more money on the degree and end up not finding a job. Most of the people I talk to keep saying that I should go the PMHNP route. One FNP I talked to said he was going back to get his Psych NP to increase his earnings. I guess I will keep doing my research and hold off on school in the mean time.
I read this thread from beginning to the end and I have got to say I am terrified of going on to NP. I am already enrolled and set up to start an FNP program in September, but this thread scares me. I dont want to spend more money on the degree and end up not finding a job. Most of the people I talk to keep saying that I should go the PMHNP route. One FNP I talked to said he was going back to get his Psych NP to increase his earnings. I guess I will keep doing my research and hold off on school in the mean time.
Go where you think you are going to be happy first and foremost. Don't make this decision for money or solely regarding saturation. Saturation will happen in many aspects of APRN work by pure economics. It is cheaper and less time consuming than becoming an MD these days. And that will surely stop or lower wages as has been described here often. If money was the pure driver, then CRNA would be the most obvious choice and even that is having it's own share of headaches. But on a side note, as states add more independent practice, we all will be in a much bigger ability to set our own income if we go that route...which in most places it is a matter of when, not if.
I chose FNP because I have a passion to work in a part of nursing that improves access and I saw that many of the inequities of our health start in primary care. I have a significant interest in knowledge and education, both of which are paramount in every aspect of my job. By many stretches, I'm a numbers guy. I can see numbers and verify that my blood pressure medications or diabetic medications are effective. I can look at lab results and have an idea of whether this person needs iron due to diet, needs a workup for a bleed, or needs a hematology consult.
What you WANT to do should be a huge driver. I couldn't imagine working as a PMHNP. Not to diminish the job, but I couldn't imagine a job where the therapy side is so sidelined. It's not always the case, but from what I gauge here, the majority of the job becomes writing and refilling scripts with clinical judgement becoming a mix of balancing the right med for the right diagnosis (which is often exceptionally nuanced) and hoping their PCP is in touch to ensure you don't have an interaction. I often look at PMHNPs as an artist with how they balance medication to patient described effects as they sort out what is fact and fiction in what they personally observe.
Go where you think you are going to be happy first and foremost. Don't make this decision for money or solely regarding saturation. Saturation will happen in many aspects of APRN work by pure economics. It is cheaper and less time consuming than becoming an MD these days. And that will surely stop or lower wages as has been described here often. If money was the pure driver, then CRNA would be the most obvious choice and even that is having it's own share of headaches. But on a side note, as states add more independent practice, we all will be in a much bigger ability to set our own income if we go that route...which in most places it is a matter of when, not if.
I chose FNP because I have a passion to work in a part of nursing that improves access and I saw that many of the inequities of our health start in primary care. I have a significant interest in knowledge and education, both of which are paramount in every aspect of my job. By many stretches, I'm a numbers guy. I can see numbers and verify that my blood pressure medications or diabetic medications are effective. I can look at lab results and have an idea of whether this person needs iron due to diet, needs a workup for a bleed, or needs a hematology consult.
What you WANT to do should be a huge driver. I couldn't imagine working as a PMHNP. Not to diminish the job, but I couldn't imagine a job where the therapy side is so sidelined. It's not always the case, but from what I gauge here, the majority of the job becomes writing and refilling scripts with clinical judgement becoming a mix of balancing the right med for the right diagnosis (which is often exceptionally nuanced) and hoping their PCP is in touch to ensure you don't have an interaction. I often look at PMHNPs as an artist with how they balance medication to patient described effects as they sort out what is fact and fiction in what they personally observe.
Thank you for the words of wisdom. I honestly dont see myself as a PMHNP. My dream has always been to work in primary care and with the elderly. I will go with my passion and just hope for the best.
Which is why if your going the NP route to get paid more dont do it becaude regular nurses working 4 days a week with much less responsibility get better wages and go home to sleep. Not the case for the NP.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
3 minutes ago, Mimibsnrn said:
Thank you for the words of wisdom. I honestly dont see myself as a PMHNP. My dream has always been to work in primary care and with the elderly. I will go with my passion and just hope for the best.
Don't worry about what is posted on this forum. Some people here like to preach doom and gloom endlessly. There are plenty of primary care NP jobs out there, but you should be prepared to relocate if necessary. The Western US has a dire shortage of primary care providers of ALL types, from doctors to mid-levels. If you are willing to be flexible on location, you will have no trouble getting a job. Research what areas have shortages of primary care providers.
Which is why if your going the NP route to get paid more dont do it becaude regular nurses working 4 days a week with much less responsibility get better wages and go home to sleep. Not the case for the NP.
I heard this alot when going to nursing school. "Dont do it for the money" If none of us cared about the money, we would all work for free. I want to be able to provide for my family and not incur unneccessary debt that would not yield any profits in the long run. I also want to have more autonomy and do more for my patients. Clinic hours also seem more appealing to me.
ZenLover, MSN, RN, NP
1 Article; 132 Posts
Even if you are doing distance DNP you still need to do clinicals. One of the things they make clear are the number of clinical hours required and I really liked that. I live in VA and so the question didn’t come up for me. Perhaps from a compact state would do? You should email them and ask. It might have something to do with their certifications or access to funding? They have been extremely responsive, professional and polite through the whole process for me.