I recently received a published form from the State of Florida showing that ARNPs increased 22% over the past two years. RNs only increased by 7.4% If you are a new grad wondering why you can't find a position here is your answer. Our NP mills have pumped out too many graduates for the demand of society. I don't have the data to back it up but if this is happening in Florida I would assume it is happening around the nation.
I'm licensed in Florida but moved to California years ago because I could see the tsunami of new graduates slowly starting to erode the wages of established NPs. It's now happening here in California and I have been directly affected. I can count at least another dozen of my NP colleagues around the nation who are complaining of wage deflation happening because new grads will accept a position at almost any wage. Starting wages are below those for RNs in some cases.
For those of you thinking of becoming a NP think and long and hard before you commit your money and your time. The job is enjoyable but the return on investment is declining year after the year with the flooding of the markets. Maybe one day the leaders of our nursing schools will open a book on economics and understand the relationship between supply and demand rather than stuff another useless nursing theory down our throats.
Specializes in DPT, DNP. Ortho, Family Practice, Psych..
14 minutes ago, Oldmahubbard said:
Teaching was never anything that great, but it was a steady job with benefits, and the credentials were easy to get. You had summers off.
Fast forward 15 or 20 years, and there were 100 teaching applicants for every job.
Law used to be very decent, but the number of lawyers needed was overestimated.
Also greatly overestimated was the pay, considering the investment.
The US is replete with adjunct professors, who now supply more than half of our college education. Many of them have truly pathetic lives, poverty wages and no benefits, along with their PhD. If you don't know about their plight, you should google it.
The NP profession is headed this way, in my opinion. How could it not?
@Oldmahubbard I couldn't agree with you more. My wife is a pharmacist and she graduated at just the right time. 7-10 years ago, pharmacy was the field to go into. Fast forward to now, and there is a surplus of PharmDs that are struggling to find a job. Physical Therapy is headed towards this direct as well; the only difference is that it will take slightly longer due to small class size and competition. It's closer than I probably think. My brother is a lawyer and it took him 6 months to find a job due to heavy competition and a surplus of JDs.
I understand what others are saying about survival of the fittest and every man/woman for him/herself. Nonetheless, I don't think that is the answer to our profession. Watering our profession down so that everyone is welcome is frankly stupid. It b***ard***es the profession, and our colleagues and other disciplines are taking notice.
A person who had no experience as a Psych RN, and got their online Psych NP degree with 500 clinical hours, very simply could not have handled what I had to deal with today.
The FNP field is extremely impacted and many new grads have difficulty finding jobs. However, I found that some students know this fact going into their programs and are not expecting wages to be much higher than an RN. At least in my state. Those who I know are primary care physician have job offers before they even finish residency. PCPs are still in high demand, but NPs are not. I understand it is different in other parts of the country, but this is the case where I reside. Good luck to you all
I have been looking for NP programs for the past few months and this is exactly why I can’t make a decision. My experience as an RN is limited to Hospice/Palliative care which I think would make my job search even harden ( even though I want to stay in the field). I have a couple of friends that can’t find jobs as NP after graduation and it is scary after all the time and money it takes. Thank you for posting.
While I have seen a surplus of FNP's in my area of the country, Acute Care NP's are still in demand. Most of the job postings I see for Acute Care NP's specify 3-5 years of progressive RN experience as a requirement. I feel this will weed out those without significant RN experience who quickly jumped from their BSN to grad school. If you want to work in an inpatient NP position, only Acute Care NP's are being hired as well.
As a current Acute Care NP student, reading forums discussing the possible NP oversupply make me nervous and a bit anxious about the long-term job outlook in the profession. However I do feel I attend a rigorous program and I am happy that my school provides all preceptors. By the time I graduate, I will have over 7 years of ICU and ER experience as well as my CCRN, so I am hopeful that will count for something!
Specializes in DPT, DNP. Ortho, Family Practice, Psych..
5 hours ago, DesertSky said:
While I have seen a surplus of FNP's in my area of the country, Acute Care NP's are still in demand. Most of the job postings I see for Acute Care NP's specify 3-5 years of progressive RN experience as a requirement. I feel this will weed out those without significant RN experience who quickly jumped from their BSN to grad school. If you want to work in an inpatient NP position, only Acute Care NP's are being hired as well.
As a current Acute Care NP student, reading forums discussing the possible NP oversupply make me nervous and a bit anxious about the long-term job outlook in the profession. However I do feel I attend a rigorous program and I am happy that my school provides all preceptors. By the time I graduate, I will have over 7 years of ICU and ER experience as well as my CCRN, so I am hopeful that will count for something!
It definitely should make you nervous. But, I'll say this: if you're going to become an Acute Care NP, critical care /ICU is the best experience you can have to open up doors. Likewise, if you're an FNP, ER experience is by far the best background you can have. You really need an "in." If your background is in rehab, specialty-focused, etc: good luck. There's a dime a dozen for every open spot out there.
It definitely should make you nervous. But, I'll say this: if you're going to become an Acute Care NP, critical care /ICU is the best experience you can have to open up doors. Likewise, if you're an FNP, ER experience is by far the best background you can have. You really need an "in." If your background is in rehab, specialty-focused, etc: good luck. There's a dime a dozen for every open spot out there.
I am hoping my 7+ years of high acuity ICU and ER experience counts for something when I am looking for my first Acure Care NP job after graduation next year....
I am actually looking at trying to get into an Acute Care NP residency even though the first year salaries are lower than many jobs. I feel like that will bridge the gap to practice and also give me some great connects at many of the academic centers and teaching hospitals where they are offered. I'll take a lower first year salary for the extra support and experiences offered by Acute Care NP residency's offered at places like Emory University and UPenn.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
The supply of NPs versus number of jobs varies widely by location. Anyone considering becoming an NP should carefully research the job market where they wish to live and work.
In general, the Western US seems to have a serious shortage of all types of providers, except in the big cities on the coast. But that leaves a boatload of places that really need NPs. I'm in California, so here is where I know there is a high needs for NPs, as I am looking for a job: California (except SF, LA, and San Diego), Oregon, Washington state (except Seattle area), Idaho, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Montana, Wyoming, Minnesota, Upstate New York. This is just what I know of, so there are other areas with real shortages of providers.
It does appear that job opportunities for NPs are limited in the Southeast US.
NP is not the only route to RN career advancement. RNs have a lot of other lucrative options, like management, RN First Assist, case management, academia, locums. CRNA and Nurse-Midwife are other APRN options.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
There is indeed a shortage of RNs and NPs in certain areas. That is why the Federal Government has the Nurse Corps Scholarship, HRSA Scholarships, and Loan Repayment programs. Many states also have equivalent programs. This is a means to get RNs and APRNs to where they are most needed.
The Federal Government provides Health Professional Shortage Area (HPSA) scores for areas and underserved populations. A HPSA score of 14 or higher is considered high need.
Many state governments also provide information and reports on projected RN and provider supply and demand. The internet is your friend here. For example, Washington State, a great place to live, has a real shortage of all types of providers in their rural areas and they have established a state office to assist in recruiting providers to these areas. Washington is not physically a huge state, so these jobs are generally within a 30 to 60 minute drive of a good size town or city. So do some research on states that you are interested in living and working in.
I would advise anyone considering an RN or NP job to become familiar with the resources available for financial aid and determining which areas have the highest need for nurses of all types. I am providing some links below:
All I can say is what I have experienced as an NP with tons of RN experience and I do know how to do a pap smear. the salaries offered to NPs new or experienced in middle TN are 20% less than being offered in some other states. Job openings are rare to non existent, My current salary as an NP is the same as I made as a travel RN in 2003. "Fullglass BSN, MSN" is obviously in a prime state for midlevels. Please share that location, I will move tomorrow!! I see ads here everyday and have actually received offers( same as I made as an ICU RN in 2000) for positions that make me just regret ever going through the pain and expense of going back for my NP. I was much more marketable as an RN. I will never pay my student loan off and it has hampered any hope of mortgage approval. For what?? A salary I could make as a manufacturing plant worker with a high school diploma??? Yes, I love my work, but I have to feed my family also. And yes, our schools have betrayed us with their greed by diluting the market. "Here $25K tuition, ok here is your NP certificate". When do we stop them and how???
Specializes in DPT, DNP. Ortho, Family Practice, Psych..
4 hours ago, FullGlass said:
There is indeed a shortage of RNs and NPs in certain areas. That is why the Federal Government has the Nurse Corps Scholarship, HRSA Scholarships, and Loan Repayment programs. Many states also have equivalent programs. This is a means to get RNs and APRNs to where they are most needed.
The Federal Government provides Health Professional Shortage Area (HPSA) scores for areas and underserved populations. A HPSA score of 14 or higher is considered high need.
Many state governments also provide information and reports on projected RN and provider supply and demand. The internet is your friend here. For example, Washington State, a great place to live, has a real shortage of all types of providers in their rural areas and they have established a state office to assist in recruiting providers to these areas. Washington is not physically a huge state, so these jobs are generally within a 30 to 60 minute drive of a good size town or city. So do some research on states that you are interested in living and working in.
I would advise anyone considering an RN or NP job to become familiar with the resources available for financial aid and determining which areas have the highest need for nurses of all types. I am providing some links below:
You’re a good person FullGlass. You truly are helping people out on this forum, and I’m sure many people appreciate it. You looking to stay in California or are you willing to go wherever?
Ive always been told that obtaining 2 out of these 3 variables is reasonably obtainable: (1) compensation/benefits, (2) specialty preference, and (3) location. Obtaining all 3 can be especially difficult, particularly depending on your experience and where you live. It’s possible, but the main takeaway is that you usually have to give up something, no matter where you are. There are dream jobs out there that have all 3, but sometimes that isn’t realistic for NPs (or any profession for that matter).
ThePTNurseGuy, DNP, NP
36 Posts
@Oldmahubbard I couldn't agree with you more. My wife is a pharmacist and she graduated at just the right time. 7-10 years ago, pharmacy was the field to go into. Fast forward to now, and there is a surplus of PharmDs that are struggling to find a job. Physical Therapy is headed towards this direct as well; the only difference is that it will take slightly longer due to small class size and competition. It's closer than I probably think. My brother is a lawyer and it took him 6 months to find a job due to heavy competition and a surplus of JDs.
I understand what others are saying about survival of the fittest and every man/woman for him/herself. Nonetheless, I don't think that is the answer to our profession. Watering our profession down so that everyone is welcome is frankly stupid. It b***ard***es the profession, and our colleagues and other disciplines are taking notice.