Our new hire, new grad charge nurse

GM2RN · Dec 16, 2010

RN's dont hv to be IV certified. Its inclusive in our education.LPN's are the only ones that need IV certification. Plus RN's have the benefit of having hours and hours of clinical experience in the hospital where we start IV's all the time. Please dont confuse the two, RNs spend lots of hours in the hospital during school dealing with complex patients.

RNs don't HAVE to be certified, but it is policy at my hospital for all nurses to have 5 supervised, successful, and documented IV starts before they can do them on their own.

As for having hours and hours of clinical experience starting IVs, the whole point of this thread is about a new grad RN with NO experience.

Plus, most nursing students, at least in my area, don't get the opportunity to start many IVs before graduation. It's not uncommon for new grads to have never started an IV, never inserted a foley, never inserted an NGT, etc. So the post you quoted is not an unlikely scenario.

irenekui · Dec 16, 2010

RNs don't HAVE to be certified, but it is policy at my hospital for all nurses to have 5 supervised, successful, and documented IV starts before they can do them on their own.
As for having hours and hours of clinical experience starting IVs, the whole point of this thread is about a new grad RN with NO experience.
Plus, most nursing students, at least in my area, don't get the opportunity to start many IVs before graduation. It's not uncommon for new grads to have never started an IV, never inserted a foley, never inserted an NGT, etc. So the post you quoted is not an unlikely scenario.

The point I was trying to make here is that RN's unlike LPN's dont have to have a specific certificate that indicates they can administer IV meds, start IV's. Being IV certified means not only can you start IV's but you can also administer IV meds, DC PICC lines, CVC etc. I find it quite hilarious that ur hosp would require one to have 5 supervised documented IV starts before one can do them on their own. Does this guarantee that they will be successful in all other IV starts for the rest of their nursing careers??? I dont know any new grad RN who has never had a chance to start an IV. Unless of course their whole degree was online and they had no clinical experience which is not possible.

One thing that the original post doesnt address is how new is the new grad??? I hv bn an RN for 2 years in SICU/Trauma ICU/CVICU and I can tell you all the nurses that are much older and have tons of experience still regard me as a new grad. Some people are just fast learners. My nursing manager graduated just 1 semester before me and he has as much knowledge and experience, he worked as a staff nurse for 2 years fresh out of school in the same unit, in his 20's and he is quite capable of the job. Management would dare not give him this position if they didnt think he could do it esp since I work at a teaching facility, Level 1 Trauma center.

iteachob, MSN, RN · Dec 16, 2010

RNs don't HAVE to be certified, but it is policy at my hospital for all nurses to have 5 supervised, successful, and documented IV starts before they can do them on their own.
As for having hours and hours of clinical experience starting IVs, the whole point of this thread is about a new grad RN with NO experience.
Plus, most nursing students, at least in my area, don't get the opportunity to start many IVs before graduation. It's not uncommon for new grads to have never started an IV, never inserted a foley, never inserted an NGT, etc. So the post you quoted is not an unlikely scenario.

This is why Kentucky requires 120 hours of internship (i.e. practice), above and beyond clinical in school, before a new grad can be licensed......just so this scenario won't happen. Maybe more states should follow suit?

JeanettePNP, MSN, RN, NP · Dec 16, 2010

My friend who is a new grad BSN was given a charge nurse position in the same facility where she was a PCT. She's not really happy in the position and would prefer to work somewhere else where she'd get more orientation and training. But in this job market you need to take what you can get.

ktwlpn, LPN · Dec 16, 2010

I guess if the LPN's do not like the fact that a new grad RN is in charge of them, they should go back to college to get their RN license.

Perhaps YOU should go back and read the OP again-Here it is -for your convenience-----

QUOTE>Let me ask you guys your opinion on this. They just hired a graduate nurse on our med surg floor and made her the charge nurse. She has zero experience. She is a BSN nurse, and the majority of us are LPNs that have been here a while. I don't have a problem with a grad nurse being a charge nurse, but with no experience at all? Has management in this hospital lost their minds?

Now lets review....

Rather she shares her concerns that her new charge nurse has no experience and it leading a group predominantly of LPN's..which I understand to mean that there often may be no other RN's on the unit. Maybe the OP can clarify. Any unit needs a good strong leader-with the state of health care today experience is not valued.It's cheaper to hire new grads for charge positions. It's scary for everyone involved. You jumped to conclusions there when you read the op.IMHO

agldragonRN · Dec 16, 2010

rn's dont hv to be iv certified. its inclusive in our education.lpn's are the only ones that need iv certification. plus rn's have the benefit of having hours and hours of clinical experience in the hospital where we start iv's all the time. please dont confuse the two, rns spend lots of hours in the hospital during school dealing with complex patients.

you are missing the point. the charge rn is a brand new bsn grad. so she does not have the benefits of "hours of hours" of rn experience yet.

i know my npa so i am not confusing the two when it regards to iv therapy for both lpns and rns. i am both so i know. do you know the npa for both? you should if you are working with lpns especially they are working under the direction of a registered nurse.

my facility won't let you touch an iv without a certification. we have a prn night supervisor who has a msn and cannot touch the iv because she let her iv renewal lapsed. the same goes for some of the hospitals in my area where some of my rn friends work. you can find that hilarious all you want but if it is a facility's policy, it is a policy.

you know what i find hilarious? somebody who has 2 years experience in sicu/trauma icu/cvicu and still thinks she is a brand new grad rn. :lol2:

caliotter3 · Dec 16, 2010

You're wrong to read this to mean that the "economy for new grads isn't so bad". Basically this med/surg floor is putting a new grad RN in charge because they don't want to spend the money to hire an experienced RN for charge nurse. Like many facilities, this hospital just doesn't care that they are putting this new grad's license in jeopardy.
Two months after getting my RN license I was working noc on a terrifyingly hectic med/surg/ortho floor. I was forced to assume charge RN duties one night when our only noc charge RN quit without notice. All the other noc RN's were agency so said I was the only employee who could function as charge. I didn't feel like my license was safe but I had been given no other option. (Night charge nurse on this floor had to take a full patient load along with the charge duties.)

When you becomes It, then you is It. Sometimes the only person to be It, is you, whether you want It or not. That happens when you is the RN and no other experienced RN is around to be the go to It.

CrunchRN, ADN, RN · Dec 16, 2010

Nice of them to set her up for failure in every way. She has my pity...

irenekui · Dec 16, 2010

you are missing the point. the charge rn is a brand new bsn grad. so she does not have the benefits of "hours of hours" of rn experience yet.
i know my npa so i am not confusing the two when it regards to iv therapy for both lpns and rns. i am both so i know. do you know the npa for both? you should if you are working with lpns especially they are working under the direction of a registered nurse.
my facility won't let you touch an iv without a certification. we have a prn night supervisor who has a msn and cannot touch the iv because she let her iv renewal lapsed. the same goes for some of the hospitals in my area where some of my rn friends work. you can find that hilarious all you want but if it is a facility's policy, it is a policy.
you know what i find hilarious? somebody who has 2 years experience in sicu/trauma icu/cvicu and still thinks she is a brand new grad rn.

from my previous post, i stated that older nurses with lots of experience view any young nurse as a new grad and maybe thats whats happening to you. maybe the new bsn grad appears inexperienced due to age. btw she may have had a previous rn experience and just graduated from the bsn program. is this the case? i personally dont consider myself a new grad but the older nurses i work with attribute age to inexperience. i went toa traditional nursing program in a state university and every semester we had to do specific days with the iv therapy team. so the only nurses i know, rns i mean , who havent done this in school probably went to online rn programs like excelsior thats why some states wont let them practice.

mazy · Dec 16, 2010

A facility that hires a new grad into a charge position doesn't care about the patients or the nurses.

Unfortunately, I have seen it happen many times, a new RN gets hired, genuinely interessted in doing a good job, but a bit naive about the politics of the profession, and then gets thrown on the floor as a charge nurse without any preparation or support.

I have yet to meet an RN (experienced or new) that hasn't hated being stuck in that position with the passion of a thousand fiery burning suns. And I know of a few that ended up leaving the profession completely because of it.

Unfortunately, the job market is very bad and it's not easy to just pick up and leave a job.

I don't know anything about this new BSN, how long she has been in this role, or how she handles it. If she actually cares about being a good nurse she is probably gearing up to post on this site about this terrifying sitatuion she's in at work.

Sounds dangerous for her, for you, and the patients, and your facility obviously doesn't care.

Sounds like a sucky situation for everyone involved.

noreenl · Dec 16, 2010

I am just wondering, Was this new Grad possibly an LPN prior to being a "new RN grad"? i didn't see that question asked.

kcochrane · Dec 16, 2010

please re-read my response to mike. i was suggesting charting that way to the op who is an lpn because like what i said an lpn is supposed to be under the supervision of an rn and only an rn can do an "assessment". you are an rn already so you can assess on your own and chart accordingly. this is in my state of new jersey. each state is different.
here is the npa for an lpn in nj:
the practice of nursing as a licensed practical nurse is defined as performing tasks and responsibilities within the framework of casefinding; reinforcing the patient and family teaching program through health teaching, health counseling and provision of supportive and restorative care, under the direction of a registered nurse or licensed or otherwise legally authorized physician or dentist.
link: http://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/laws/nursinglaws.pdf

it is the same thing in new york. a lpn cannot access or teach. the lpns i work with need me to access a patient if no rn has access them for 24 hours, i have to do their iv pushes, admission orders, telephone orders, etc.

i can tell you that as a new rn i would have been up a creek if my charge nurse was a new grad with no experience. i relied on that charge nurse initially for a lot. even after a year i go to them for advice or support for an issue. it is just sad all around for the lpns and the bsn - not to mention the patients.

i do agree that making sure your documentation is complete is a good thing. is there any other resource for the op if the bsn isn't able to handle it? we always have a off shift supervisor or enet nurse (from icu that comes around to access problems).