online schools cheapen our profession?

mona b RN, BSN, RN · Jan 20, 2006

This I can compare to many things but to remain on topic all the online schools and their continued rise to recruit new LPN's, RN's and BSN's. Standards must go down.......................................
What do you think?

Due to the fact that this is an incomplete sentence, I am not quite sure what you are asking.:wink2:

LadyT618, MSN, APRN, NP · Jan 20, 2006

I don't see it as an incomplete sentence, more of an open ended statement. It's an issue to discuss and I believe the OP is asking people's opinion on the topic at hand.......fill in the blank with your thoughts!!

To the OP, you do bring up an interesting point. I would hate to think that these online gigs are bringing down their standards to make more LPNs and RNs. Call me an optimist, I just look at it as them giving people more options as to how to ascertain their nursing degrees and accomplish their goals when so many "traditional" schools have such long waiting lists. And if the people who attend these schools lead successful professional careers, it goes to show that maybe you don't need the amount of unnecessary classes the "traditional" schools put you through in order to make it. Just my $0.02.

mona b RN, BSN, RN · Jan 20, 2006

I don't see it as an incomplete sentence, more of an open ended statement. It's an issue to discuss and I believe the OP is asking people's opinion on the topic at hand.......fill in the blank with your thoughts!!
To the OP, you do bring up an interesting point. I would hate to think that these online gigs are bringing down their standards to make more LPNs and RNs. Call me an optimist, I just look at it as them giving people more options as to how to ascertain their nursing degrees and accomplish their goals when so many "traditional" schools have such long waiting lists. And if the people who attend these schools lead successful professional careers, it goes to show that maybe you don't need the amount of unnecessary classes the "traditional" schools put you through in order to make it. Just my $0.02.

Sorry if I sounded harsh but my troll radar started flashing when I read the op's post. :uhoh3:

To the op, I agree with what Lady has said. Online opportunities open up doors for people who would otherwise miss the opportunitiy to attend school. Long waiting lists and the shortage of nurse educators has affected so many areas of nursing and many people are turned away or discouraged from pursuing it as a career.

galenight, BSN, RN · Jan 20, 2006

My opinion is this: if you are not a nurse, online school is not an option. I also believe that a LPN studying for an RN degree should also do that in the classroom setting for the most part. I especially am referring to the need for actual clinical time. I know there are distance learning programs where you test out of every class and then at the end go to a special facility and have a weekend of clinical testing. I believe that nursing school is a learning process as is the clinical aspect of it and you can't just be tested on it once and call it good.

Having said that, I am currently an RN studying for my BSN. I am taking all my classes online with a very reputable brick and morter school that is in the top 10 in the country. I, even as a BSN student, am required to have some clinical time and will be doing community health clinicals this term. I have found this style to be compatible with my life as a single mom working full time. The work is not less than traditional school. In fact, in some ways it is more work. You are often required to log on at least 2-3 times per week per class. You must participate in discussion boards frequently with thoughtful and relevant postings. There are frequent quizzes or tests, and research papers and other writing assignments. I feel that I am receiving a quality education that is commiserate witih the standards of the institution I am attending. A degree from that University is looked upon with repsect due to it's reputation. In addition, you must be self motivated and disciplined. You have to be able to get along by yourself. The instructors are helpful and quite knowledgeable. Many of the instructors I have had, both nursing and general education, hold a PhD. So, NO, it is not easier. It might be more convenient, but it's not easier and the quality, at least at this institution, is equal to an degree from it's brick and morter counterpart (actually the syllabus is the same for most classes as are the learning objectives.. it's just the delivery of info that is different)

imenid37 · Jan 20, 2006

Let's see ... I graduated from what was then the #2 public nursing school in the country (u of MD) w/ a 3.9 GPA for my BSN. I am going for a Master's online through St. Louis University. It is difficult. Although I have only completed one course (Advanced Pathophys), I find it to be a valuable learning experience. The class I took was quite challenging and the instructor was excellent. I have friends who have taken this course in the MSN program of a local college and they didn't seem to find it as challenging. Online learning is different from traditional learning, but it is not necessarily inferior or superior. I believe different students are more suited for one program or another. As you well know, there are some excellent and very marginal traditional nursing programs. I have a little hesitation about generic students who are getting a first time degre for ADN or LPN through distance learning, but not for those who are already working in nursing with several years experience who are moving up the education ladder. I have, BTW, worked w/ some very wonderful nurses who went from LPN to ADN through the Excelsior program. I don't think online or distance programs are inherently inferior. Indeed, perhaps students have to "jump through more hoops" because the face to face contact is lacking in order to prove their proficiency. Maybe you are a TROLL, but is is certainly a question I have heard from many people.

llg, PhD, RN · Jan 20, 2006

The OP brings up some very interesting and important issues for the nursing profession. It's not only with the proliferation of online courses. Many brick and morter programs are also compromising their standards as they increase enrollments, add new programs, create accellerated programs, etc. In some (but not all) cases, the standards are going down.

Note that I said "not all cases." Some schools are maintaining high standards and providing rigorous educational programs for their students. However, others are not and we will be seeing the graduates of those programs practicing within the profession for many years to come. The NCLEX only "catches" those who can't pass that particular test -- and even then, they get multiple chances to pass it. Very few people fail the test if they are willing to take it 5 or 6 times and invest in programs aimed at helping you pass the test. And it is difficult for schools to actually flunk students out of their programs because they face the possibility of legal action from every student who flunks out plus pressure from the community about having high course failure rates.

If we are going to have a respectable profession in the future, the nurses of today must develop a strong backbone and insist that schools maintain high admission and progression standards ... that schools should not be so "customer oriented" that they make things too easy for the students and the learning is compromised. It breaks my heart to hear nurses talk about how easy some of their coursework is and how they are learning very little -- particularly in the BSN completion programs. There is a lot to learn and they should be working hard and learning it.

Higher education should be accessible to all people -- but the coursework itself should not be easy. It should require considerable time and effort to complete. High grades (and higher degrees) should be reserved only for those of high achievement. That's the only way it will mean anything.

llg

lcbradley · Jan 21, 2006

Online learning is not necessarily easier. As a person who is two courses away from a M.S. in Educational Administration done entirely online, I must say that I worked extremely hard for that degree and learned more with this program than the bricks and mortar schools I've attended. As far as standards of a program are concerned, it is important to check this out before you enroll in an online program so that you won't cheat yourself by going to a program that may not be up to standards. In the traditional two-year nursing program I currently attend, we have some courses that are offered completely online. The requirements are the same, but you must be more disciplined because you don't have a teacher standing before you telling you what to highlight or giving you notes.

over30nursestudent · Jan 21, 2006

FYI Galenite, Not all online nursing schools have a " test out of each class and then do a one time specialty clinical test weekend" My nursing school is real with bricks and morter; it also offers an rn program online, it is accrediated and approved by the NLN and the MI BON. With real cliincal time that goes for hours and hours. My classes online are hard!!!! My instructors seem intense. I am doing these classes on top of campus classes at a community college plus working part time, kids etc. Even though it is very hard it is well worth it. I applaud schools to offer an innovative solution like this to minimize the nursing shortage. I grew very tired of the 2+ yr wait list at all the the nursing programs here in MI. I think the only thing I am missing out on is my butt is not getting numb sitting at a tiny desk during a lecture on campus; instead I am sipping a latte as I take notes while I attend a live lecture online on my wifi laptap at starbucks!

Jo Dirt · Jan 21, 2006

I hold one post graduate degree working on a second and two Baccalaureate degrees. Yes, I like school a whole lot. I have taken online courses but find them to be relatively easy compared to in-school classes...snip
What do you think?

I think I smell a troll.

LadyT618, MSN, APRN, NP · Jan 22, 2006

why do u think it's a troll?

Trauma Columnist · Jan 23, 2006

Regardless of whether the OP is a troll - this is a subject that comes up from time to time on the board and has been addressed. To the OP - maybe a search is in order?