OK, Cultural question here, please forgive the stupidity.

U.S.A. Alabama

Published

OK, forst of all, for those who do not know, I live and work in Alabama. With the exception of learning Spanish (which was more a hobby than a necessity, and has proven to come in real handy!), I have never given much thought to the rites and customs of other cultures, with the exception of what we were taught in school, until they came into play. It was literally that far between times that I HAD to think about it, and was usually a minor thing, like making sure our Jewish or Muslim patients did not receive pork on their diet.

They didn't teach me this in school.

I have had a number of patients of (and work with several docs of) Middle Eastern descent lately, and I have 2 questions.....I would ask, because shy is about the last thing I am, but I really don't want to look like an idiot or accidentally insult somebody.

1) What is the word for the head scarf that the women usually wear? I work with another NP who wears one, but I'd be mortified to ask her.

2) Is it considered rude of me, as a Christian and as a female, to assess the male patients bare-headed? I see their wives and female relations wearing the whatever-it-is-that-I-don't-know-yet, and am curious. Nurses don't even wear hats here, NPs wear whatever, so I just want some input.

I have no problem with the above, if it is considered good manners. To me, it's no different than speaking Spanish to a Hispanic patient. If it helps me make a positive impression, and makes my patient more comfortable, so much the better for me. My family, on the other hand, thinks I'm a hypocrite, because I am firmly in the camp of "No man's going to tell me what to do". You know, that is how I was raised. This is America. I am a very strong independent woman and danged if I'll kowtow to someone just because he happens to be male. I just won't do it. I am ranked right up there with Obama bowing to whoever it was he bowed to. Do I think it meant anything? I don't know. It didn't strike me as any different than curtsying to the Queen of England. Do I curtsy here? No. There, yes, because I'd be in their country and would want to make a good impression. Same with, I think, Cambodia, where it's considered rude to point the sole of your foot towards someone (the reason being that they consider that the dirtiest part of the body). I would endeavor not to insult anyone.

I don't see this as any different, but I would like some advice. Is it considered bad form to assess someone of that culture bare-headed, while his female relations are covered, or would it be considered MORE rude yet to cover my head, even though I am not of the same culture or religion?

No one has said anything to me. All the patients and docs have been more than nice, and the NP I mentioned before is the only one that wears the scarf, so obviously the docs do not take issue with NOT wearing one. I guess I'm being silly, but this is nagging at me, so if you can shed some light on the subject, this dim bulb would be appreciative.

Thanks!!!

I think those are really good questions. I work with muslim patients in my job, and one of my fellow nurses is Somali. Our child life specialist did a research project on muslim religion and culture. One of the things I remember was that in many Arab countries dogs aren't kept as pets, so they were less enthusiastic about pet therapy.

My Somali colleague told me that the Koran teaches that if you are starving you eat pork... in other words questions of health take precedence over cultural taboos.

In my experience there are many different practices within Islam, just as there are within Christianity and Judaism. So I think you are right to ask patients.

I have had some families ask for a private room because they need to pray several times a day. I had one family that was uncomfortable because the roommate's father was sleeping in the room with him. He said his wife couldn't be in the room alone with another man present. I pointed out that I am a male, but he said I was ok because I was his son's nurse. I have had other rooms where the mother needs to wear a burka (full face / body covering) if any males besides her husband are in the room.

I am not even slightly religious. I don't care for religious fanatics, whatever their faith. My experience with Islamic families has been overwhelmingly positive. I had one father ask me to sit for tea with him after I cared for his son for a few days. He smiled and told me that god meant for me to be a nurse. I was really touched. I think one of the really good things about nursing is being able to learn about and appreciate the cultures of our patients and colleagues. And nobody should question your faith because you are trying to respect someone else's.

What's your definition of "fanatic"?

The families who wanted a private room in order to pray - were they expecting to not have to pay the higher rate? Or what if a sick person needed that bed? Could they not pray somewhere else - maybe the hospital chapel, which is, after all, designed for praying - or just on their relative's side of the room if they didn't want to leave him?

Ah, yes, the old VS under the hijab and abaya. :lol2:

So, uh, how did your Muslim friends feel about your teasing them? :devil:

Just read yesterday about the 16 year old in Afghanistan who was found buried with her hands tied, after it was said that she had been talking to boys. They said she was alive when it was done. Wonder what would have been done to her had her father found out she was wearing VS.

Just read yesterday about the 16 year old in Afghanistan who was found buried with her hands tied, after it was said that she had been talking to boys. They said she was alive when it was done. Wonder what would have been done to her had her father found out she was wearing VS.

I understand what you are saying, but I think what the previous poster who mentioned VS was saying is that you can't group all Muslims together into having the same viewpoint. Just as their are orthodox Christians and very liberal Christians, there are going to be very orthodox Muslims and very liberal Muslims.

And then there are unfortunately going to be people like those who buried this girl in the story....who are just using religion as an excuse to do bad things either intentionally because they have bad intentions or because that was the way they were raised and they don't know any better. The Islamic religion, or any religion for that matter, doesn't state that it is okay to bury someone alive for talking to boys!

Specializes in Med-Surg/Oncology, Psych.
The 'cultural awareness' for muslems is AMAZING. Do you ever think of covering up your tatoos for christians? [if you don't think this is offensive check out Lev. 19] No wonder Obama bowing and appologizing to doesn't offend more Americans.

If you're trying a make some kind of valid point, then perhaps you should cut the snarkiness and use a little more respect when addressing other nurses, especially nurses who are going out of their way to learn about how to treat their patients well. Checking your spelling and grammar wouldn't hurt, either.

Specializes in OR,ICU.

sorta of a funny story. i had a very sick older man whose family didn't call 911 until he passed out at the dinner table because as the elder they had to do what he said( they were sikhs)anyway when i got him in the icu he was already on the vent and whoever did the tape job on the tube had managed to wrap it all around his beard and even then it was hardly holding the tube in place.well i knew enough that to sikh men a beard is a big deal but there was no way i could retape that tube without cutting his beard because of all the tape.so i did what i had to do,protect his airway(he had really bad pneumonia,couldn't believe he was still alive)well the first thing his sons did when they saw him was not "how is he doing" but basically i think i got cussed out in hindi about the beard.i guess i was not very politically correct with my reply which was "do you want him alive or dead?"they shut up after that.i mean i really did take into consideration about the beard,but there was just no way to get that tape off and resecure the tube without cutting it.i don't think they would have talked to me like that if i had been a man which really ticked me off.i was very young then and not so "understanding" as i am now.:cool:

One approach that popped to mind:

Ask the Pt family what would make them comfortable. You can preface the question by saying there isn't a lot of good, practical cultural material for nurses--who can argue with that?--and you want to make them as comfortable as possible with the care the Pt is getting, since that correlates to better outcomes.

I hope I'm not thread jacking here, but this is the post that most closely relates to my question.

I wear a kippah (head covering) and tallit katan (fringes hanging from under my shirt) daily. I'm considering peyos as well (sidelocks). These are very conspicuous symbols of Judaism. How are ritual garments worn by nurses, not patients, viewed in the nursing field? What kind of reactions do you get from coworkers and patients?

FYI, I'm in Texas... not exactly the highest concentration of Jews here.

Specializes in Clinical Research, Outpt Women's Health.

Right off the bat I would say stuff that dangles is going to end up in stuff you don't want it in and being pulled by unruly or confused patients.

they shut up after that.i mean i really did take into consideration about the beard,but there was just no way to get that tape off and resecure the tube without cutting it.i don't think they would have talked to me like that if i had been a man which really ticked me off.i was very young then and not so "understanding" as i am now.:cool:

sort of of topic, but it doesn't matter what you're culture is, there isn't any excuse for bad behavior. period.

tolerance doesn't mean letting people treat you poorly. frankly, i don't think you were out of bounds to be so blunt with them. and, despite that a certain culture may give more respect to one gender, doesn't mean that they can treat that gender that way in our society. just as another poster mentioned she covered her head while in another country, men of different cultures don't get to treat american women like ****. what they do in their one homes is their business (minus any violations of the law).

anyway. i'm all for respect and tolerance, and i don't mind going out of my way for reasonable accommodations for a different culture or religion, but i refuse to be treated as a servant or be talked down to because a certain culture thinks i'm lesser because i have a lady parts.

respect and tolerance is a two way street, and i hope i haven't derailed this thread. there's good info here!

Specializes in ICU/CCU, PICU.

oh, and do not give anything to a muslim or hindu with your left hand alone, as it is considered unclean. source: http://www.cyborlink.com/besite/international_gift_giving.htm

and thanks to the op for asking such a culturally sensitive question. :up:

giving things in your left hand may be a little bit more practical in america. historically, the left hand was used to wipe your bumb and right hand to eat. because in american these traditions were never met (because we wipe our bumbs with either hand), it's more acceptable to receive things.

A few others have acknowledged this, too -- but deference to Muslims or any other religious or ethnic group -- kindness, politeness, civility, asking preferences, not assuming too much about what's acceptable, etc. -- this behavior should just be standard in dealing with any patient. We all have our cultural values, our perhaps irrational phobias, or past histories that may involve physical or sexual abuse. American culture in general is quite sensitive about touching. The standard should be to be sensitive enough to read cues and ask questions of patients. Don't just assume what may be most convenient for the schedule or the institution. As a few posters have acknowledged, sometimes just asking permission and preferences of patients is enough to convey the kind of respect for their dignity that makes them feel safe and more comfortable -- even if the patient had no gender preference or didn't need or expect permission to be asked.

Specializes in ICU/CCU, PICU.
Do you ever think of covering up your tatoos for christians? [if you don't think this is offensive check out Lev. 19]

I'm a Christian, have tattoos, don’t think they’re offensive and cannot find any relevant scripture for today. You can’t pull a verse from the Old Testament when it’s no longer in practice. Although traditions from the Old Testament are still present today, God promised a new covenant to follow (i.e. the New Testament, see Jeremiah 31:31-34).

You also need to look at the context of the verse. God was sending that message to the Israelites when traveling from Egypt to Canaan. The point was to prepare them and to cast out idolatrous nations ideology. These other nations would mark their body to worship other gods.

So looking at the New Testament, there is no evidence to back up Lev 19:28. I don’t see anything wrong with tattoos as long as they are meant to glorify God.

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